X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:17:26 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from db3outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com ([213.199.154.140] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.5) with ESMTPS id 5555702 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 23 May 2012 11:26:09 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=213.199.154.140; envelope-from=rpastusek@htii.com Received: from mail32-db3-R.bigfish.com (10.3.81.248) by DB3EHSOBE005.bigfish.com (10.3.84.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Wed, 23 May 2012 15:25:23 +0000 Received: from mail32-db3 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail32-db3-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4476240158 for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 15:25:23 +0000 (UTC) X-SpamScore: -9 X-BigFish: PS-9(zz9371Ic85fh98dK1db9Mzz1202hzz8275ch8275bh8275dhz31h2a8h668h839hd25hf0ah) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.245.5;KIP:(null);UIP:(null);IPV:NLI;H:CH1PRD0710HT002.namprd07.prod.outlook.com;RD:none;EFVD:NLI Received-SPF: softfail (mail32-db3: transitioning domain of htii.com does not designate 157.56.245.5 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.245.5; envelope-from=rpastusek@htii.com; helo=CH1PRD0710HT002.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ;.outlook.com ; Received: from mail32-db3 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail32-db3 (MessageSwitch) id 1337786721296937_20169; Wed, 23 May 2012 15:25:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from DB3EHSMHS009.bigfish.com (unknown [10.3.81.251]) by mail32-db3.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41F953A0101 for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 15:25:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0710HT002.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (157.56.245.5) by DB3EHSMHS009.bigfish.com (10.3.87.109) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Wed, 23 May 2012 15:25:19 +0000 Received: from CH1PRD0710MB367.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.11.36]) by CH1PRD0710HT002.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.152.37]) with mapi id 14.16.0164.004; Wed, 23 May 2012 15:25:24 +0000 From: Robert R Pastusek X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: RE: [LML] Re: 360 still surging Thread-Topic: [LML] Re: 360 still surging Thread-Index: AQHNON4OBNpy6i2oCUKcX+3fs0aQrpbXegsg X-Original-Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 15:25:23 +0000 X-Original-Message-ID: <41361035E6613244A377D5AC3BF5EFDD164B6ED8@CH1PRD0710MB367.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [65.202.241.130] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_41361035E6613244A377D5AC3BF5EFDD164B6ED8CH1PRD0710MB367_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Return-Path: rpastusek@htii.com X-OriginatorOrg: htii.com --_000_41361035E6613244A377D5AC3BF5EFDD164B6ED8CH1PRD0710MB367_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I second Don's recommendation. Take the filters out, and thoroughly flush y= our tanks/lines before you start your engine for the first time. I built my IV-P with a large capacity/high flow filter between each wing ta= nk and the fuel tank selector valve. Passed all fuel flow/leak tests, but o= ne of the very experienced Lancair test pilots looked at my "good idea" and= said he wouldn't fly the airplane with them installed. Seemed a petty thin= g to me...but I removed them anyway. (He did not fly the airplane, but I fi= nally rationalized that I was asking advice from a professional and was bei= ng pretty foolish not to accept it...) In almost 800 hours of flying, the f= uel system has been faultless. I flushed the tanks/lines pretty thoroughly = during tank/system testing (see my article in the just-released LOBO newsle= tter), and have collected no more than a trace of junk in the gascolator ov= er the four years I've been flying. Bob Pastusek Berni , I do not have any filters in my fuel system other than the gascolat= or. I have an IO-550N. Never any fuel issues other than vaporization on a = hot day. Personally I would not have them. Don G. On May 22, 2012 3:30 PM, "Berni Breen" > wrote: Hi Don: No filter between the two. I have 2 filters between the fuel selector and = the gascolator. I pulled both of those today to check but discovered no re= strictions. I had not thought about removing them...do you recommend I do? Thank you. Berni Breen Sent from my iPhone On May 22, 2012, at 8:32 AM, don Grabiel > wrote: Berni, just a thought, but do you have a fuel filter in between the gascola= tor and the manual fuel pump on the engine? If so try removing it. Don= G. On May 21, 2012 4:31 PM, "Berni Breen" > wrote: Many of you guys have offered suggestions to help me remedy my ongoing engi= ne surge challenge. As a reminder...my fuel injected IO360 displays a very= pronounced surge during idle and taxi following a flight and brief shutdow= n/restart. The problem never occurs when the engine iis cool. I have tried suggestions such as ground running the engine at 1700 rpm for = extended periods following a restart in an attempt to get some air moving t= hrough the cowl but that has resulted in limited success. So far my only r= emedy is to let the engine sit for a long enough period to let it cool sign= ificantly. If I do, I have zero issues with surging. I even removed my fuel injector servo and sent it off for overhaul (not an = inexpensive undertaking) as another attempt to remedy my problem. That ide= a does not address what I firmly believe to be the problem, heat causing fu= el vapor lock, but I tried it anyway. I reinstalled the servo yesterday an= d test flew. The plane performed flawlessly as it always does following a = first start. When I returned home and let it sit for 20 minutes, restarted= and went to taxi, the surge was just as pronounced as ever. All of my fuel lines are insulated and fire sleeved. The only exposed line= s are the small lines that run up to the spider on the top of the engine. I= do not have any fuel leaks. Turning on my electric fuel pump, while incre= asing fuel pressure from 20 to 25 psi, does not remedy the surge issue. As posted here before I have taken the active and lifted off several times = with this surge issue going on as the surge quits once I apply full throttl= e. As several of you have pointed out this is not a safe way to proceed th= erefore I am again asking for ideas/suggestions from you guys. Many years ago in my drag racing days me and several of my friends would in= stall a cooling can to cool down the fuel and therefore (we believed) helpe= d us produce more power. We would use a coffee can, insert a coil of coppe= r fuel line in the can, put this contraption in line (fuel line) fill it an= d fill it with ice prior to a run. While this is not a practical long term= solution, is this the kind of thing I should be doing to prove/disprove my= belief that I have a vapor lock issue? I sincerely appreciate any and all suggestions! Berni Breen Lancair 360 --_000_41361035E6613244A377D5AC3BF5EFDD164B6ED8CH1PRD0710MB367_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I second Don’s recommendation. = Take the filters out, and thoroughly flush your tanks/lines before you star= t your engine for the first time.

 

I built my IV-P with a large capacity= /high flow filter between each wing tank and the fuel tank selector valve. Passed all fuel flow/leak tests, but one of the very experienced La= ncair test pilots looked at my “good idea” and said he wouldn’t fly the airplane with them installed. = Seemed a petty thing to me…but I removed them anyway. (He did not fly the airplane, but I finally rationalized that I was asking= advice from a professional and was being pretty foolish not to accept it&#= 8230;) In almost 800 hours of flying, the fuel system has been faultless. I= flushed the tanks/lines pretty thoroughly during tank/system testing (see my article in the just-released LOBO newsl= etter), and have collected no more than a trace of junk in the gascolator o= ver the four years I’ve been flying.

 

Bob Pastusek=

Berni , I do not have any filters in my fuel system other than the gasco= lator.  I have an IO-550N. Never any fuel issues other than vaporizati= on on a hot day. Personally I would not have them.  Don G.<= /p>

On May 22, 2012 3:30 PM, "Berni Breen" <= ;bbreen@cableone.net> wrote:<= o:p>

Hi Don:

 

No filter between the two.  I have 2 filters be= tween the fuel selector and the gascolator.  I pulled both of those to= day to check but discovered no restrictions.  I had not thought about = removing them...do you recommend I do?

 

Thank you.

Berni Breen

Sent from my iPhone


On May 22, 2012, at 8:32 AM, don Grabiel <grabiel71@gmail.com> wrote:

Berni, just a thought, but do you have a fuel filter in between the gasc= olator and the manual fuel pump on the engine? If so try removing it. =      Don G.

On May 21, 2012 4:31 PM, "Berni Breen" <= ;bbreen@cableone.n= et> wrote:

Many of you guys have offered suggestions to help me= remedy my ongoing engine surge challenge.  As a reminder...my fuel in= jected IO360 displays a very pronounced surge during idle and taxi followin= g a flight and brief shutdown/restart.  The problem never occurs when the engine iis cool.  =

 

I have tried suggestions such as ground running the = engine at 1700 rpm for extended periods following a restart in an attempt t= o get some air moving through the cowl but that has resulted in limited suc= cess.  So far my only remedy is to let the engine sit for a long enough period to let it cool significantly. =  If I do, I have zero issues with surging.

 

I even removed my fuel injector servo and sent it of= f for overhaul (not an inexpensive undertaking) as another attempt to remed= y my problem.  That idea does not address what I firmly believe to be = the problem, heat causing fuel vapor lock, but I tried it anyway.  I reinstalled the servo yesterday and test fl= ew.  The plane performed flawlessly as it always does following a firs= t start.  When I returned home and let it sit for 20 minutes, restarte= d and went to taxi, the surge was just as pronounced as ever.

 

All of my fuel lines are insulated and fire sleeved.=  The only exposed lines are the small lines that run up to the spider= on the top of the engine. I do not have any fuel leaks.  Turning on m= y electric fuel pump, while increasing fuel pressure from 20 to 25 psi, does not remedy the surge issue.

 

As posted here before I have taken the active and li= fted off several times with this surge issue going on as the surge quits on= ce I apply full throttle.  As several of you have pointed out this is = not a safe way to proceed therefore I am again asking for ideas/suggestions from you guys.

 

Many years ago in my drag racing days me and several= of my friends would install a cooling can to cool down the fuel and theref= ore (we believed) helped us produce more power.  We would use a coffee= can, insert a coil of copper fuel line in the can, put this contraption in line (fuel line) fill it and fill it w= ith ice prior to a run.  While this is not a practical long term solut= ion, is this the kind of thing I should be doing to prove/disprove my belie= f that I have a vapor lock issue?

 

I sincerely appreciate any and all suggestions!=

 

Berni Breen

Lancair 360

 

 

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