Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
To:  lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 18:51:25 -0400
Message-ID: <redirect-5540757@logan.com>
Received-SPF: none
 receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.90.34; envelope-from=casey.gary@yahoo.com
DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
  s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
  h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type;
  b=j7Kxh+6ATM6rEjyxWKr9Q1DzLWCvREckwOSquaNxGYAbl+S7KoP/GrPoYyfTS+b4cDdQkNe6Sttp1IDtMWGYe0J44G0UmZ+9yH+unv9dWgdBjtWeS7xZVnuBWT5ZDrb+WcS7Ez4xokWxyDtYfy1GJq6j1gLTQyN0+qrZ2fVfchM=;
References: <listdigest-5534476@logan.com>
From: Gary Casey <casey.gary@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Gary Casey <casey.gary@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: lmCrossed Control Stall - REVIEWED
In-Reply-To: <listdigest-5534476@logan.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="607277540-1663826620-1336912418=:80095"

--607277540-1663826620-1336912418=:80095
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm not sure, but I tend to believe the original explanation of a cross-con=
trolled stall.=A0 However, the part of the explanation that speculates that=
 he is going "too fast" doesn't go with the stall theory.=A0 Could it have =
been an engine failure/Vmc stall?=A0 I suppose, but looking at the plane vi=
sibly going sideways while pointing right at the camera leads me to believe=
 the cross-control theory.=A0 Regardless, it doesn't make sense to me to re=
ject a likely explanation just because it could be something else.=A0 And a=
nyway, over the years I've found myself=A0rounding the base leg into a cont=
inuous turn as a preventive measure against inadvertently tightening the tu=
rn to final.=A0 At least in my case, to say "I'll never do that because I'm=
 so good" would be purely delusional.=0ASafe flying,=0AGary Casey=0A=A0=0AF=
rom Jarrett=0AAlan I'm curious how you can tell so much from this video? It=
 is certainly a possible explanation but so is a Vmca excursion? Or possibl=
e a stall due to aileron application only.  I find it curious that he appli=
ed any rudder at that point in his flight or how you see this in the video?=
I've read elsewhere that this particular event occurred on a Maint flight a=
fter some serious work on the plane (possibly there was a loss of power on =
one engine during the flight).=0A=0AI fly (corporately) a VERY similar a/c =
and I've NEVER 'horsed' it around with rudder with the exception of simulat=
ed single engine overshoot training, the abrupt movement felt in the planes=
 rear seats is would be very uncomfortable due to the yaw.=0A=0AI agree tha=
t cross controlling would not be a good thing while flying in this stage of=
 flight but I see no way to chalk this crash in the video up to this applic=
ation of controls.=0A=0AFwiw=0AJarrett Johnson
--607277540-1663826620-1336912418=:80095
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:bo=
okman old style, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div>I'm not sure, =
but I tend to believe the original explanation of a cross-controlled stall.=
&nbsp; However, the part of the explanation that speculates that he is goin=
g "too fast" doesn't go with the stall theory.&nbsp; Could it have been an =
engine failure/Vmc stall?&nbsp; I suppose, but looking at the plane visibly=
 going sideways while pointing right at the camera leads me to believe the =
cross-control theory.&nbsp; Regardless, it doesn't make sense to me to reje=
ct a likely explanation just because it could be something else.&nbsp; And =
anyway, over the years I've found myself&nbsp;rounding the base leg into a =
continuous turn as a preventive measure against inadvertently tightening th=
e turn to final.&nbsp; At least in my case, to say "I'll never do that beca=
use I'm so good" would be purely delusional.</div><div>Safe
 flying,</div><div>Gary Casey</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>From Jarrett</div>=
<div>Alan I'm curious how you can tell so much from this video? It is certa=
inly a possible explanation but so is a Vmca excursion? Or possible a stall=
 due to aileron application only.  I find it curious that he applied any ru=
dder at that point in his flight or how you see this in the video?I've read=
 elsewhere that this particular event occurred on a Maint flight after some=
 serious work on the plane (possibly there was a loss of power on one engin=
e during the flight).</div><div><br></div><div>I fly (corporately) a VERY s=
imilar a/c and I've NEVER 'horsed' it around with rudder with the exception=
 of simulated single engine overshoot training, the abrupt movement felt in=
 the planes rear seats is would be very uncomfortable due to the yaw.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>I agree that cross controlling would not be a good thin=
g while flying in this stage of flight but I see no way to chalk
 this crash in the video up to this application of controls.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>Fwiw</div><div>Jarrett Johnson</div></div></body></html>
--607277540-1663826620-1336912418=:80095--