X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 13:14:58 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail121c7.megamailservers.com ([69.49.98.221] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.5) with ESMTPS id 5533391 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 11 May 2012 14:49:29 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.49.98.221; envelope-from=hjjohnson@sasktel.net X-Authenticated-User: hjjohnson.sasktel.net Received: from [192.168.1.100] (71-17-122-19.wybn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca [71.17.122.19]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail121c7.megamailservers.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q4BImpLZ000558 for ; Fri, 11 May 2012 14:48:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Crossed Control Stall - REVIEWED References: From: Jarrett Johnson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1B14BFC2-3898-4032-B210-5C182F7944A9 X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B179) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Message-Id: <222DE311-15FC-43D2-A671-3C3FC8387673@sasktel.net> X-Original-Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 12:49:51 -0600 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=1.1 cv=zEwk+lDBl5eRE1+ShlHt1FAFvjFXxtaswMyvSb+BHdo= c=1 sm=1 a=7AUz2lPCmCkA:10 a=YxfxW3ofkq8A:10 a=pogFE7JhuUjwNU9L2IoY3Q==:17 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=AcFsb924AAAA:8 a=J61RZbaiAAAA:20 a=RnOZ9p3EAAAA:8 a=69tMVwo6ewV4UchYAFsA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=1dq6vvCQr-cA:10 a=JoCTXOgZcZWThFp2bbwA:7 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=pogFE7JhuUjwNU9L2IoY3Q==:117 X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A020203.4FAD5F15.0047,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0 --Apple-Mail-1B14BFC2-3898-4032-B210-5C182F7944A9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Alan I'm curious how you can tell so much from this video? It is certainly a= possible explanation but so is a Vmca excursion? Or possible a stall due to= aileron application only. I find it curious that he applied any rudder at t= hat point in his flight or how you see this in the video?I've read elsewhere= that this particular event occurred on a Maint flight after some serious wo= rk on the plane (possibly there was a loss of power on one engine during the= flight). I fly (corporately) a VERY similar a/c and I've NEVER 'horsed' it around wit= h rudder with the exception of simulated single engine overshoot training, t= he abrupt movement felt in the planes rear seats is would be very uncomforta= ble due to the yaw. I agree that cross controlling would not be a good thing while flying in thi= s stage of flight but I see no way to chalk this crash in the video up to th= is application of controls. Fwiw Jarrett Johnson ATPL 235/320 55% (and holding) Sent from my iPhone On 2012-05-11, at 12:31 PM, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote: > Actually, those are CFI maneuvers. They are not on the private pilot pract= ical test standard. >=20 > Jeff=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 > On May 11, 2012, at 9:16 AM, "Alan Crawford" wrote: >=20 >> Most pilots were demonstrated the "Cross Controlled Stall" or "Over the T= op Stall" - early in flight training ... this is a good time to review it. W= e have all over shot final at some point in time .... >> =20 >> Watch this video of a King Air overshooting final. This is a perfect exam= ple of what NOT TO DO!! The King Air was traveling too fast, over shot final= , got too low. and tried to horse the plane around with right rudder ... Guy= s and Gals ... this is what happens ..... >> =20 >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dk9eTc3WS7-8 >> =20 >> Then when you have time to review http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/airc= raft/airplane_handbook/media/faa-h-8083-3a-3of7.pdf page 4-10 - Cross Contro= lled Stalls. >> =20 >> Feel Free to pass this on ... >> =20 >> Blue Skies .... Alan <01_flag.gif> >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> Life is NOT a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely >> in a pretty and well preserved body, BUT rather to skid in broadside, >> thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming, >> "WOW, WHAT A RIDE!!!" --Apple-Mail-1B14BFC2-3898-4032-B210-5C182F7944A9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Alan I'm curious how you c= an tell so much from this video? It is certainly a possible explanation but s= o is a Vmca excursion? Or possible a stall due to aileron application only. &= nbsp;I find it curious that he applied any rudder at that point in his fligh= t or how you see this in the video?I've read elsewhere that this particular e= vent occurred on a Maint flight after some serious work on the plane (possib= ly there was a loss of power on one engine during the flight).
I fly (corporately) a VERY similar a/c and I've NEVER 'horsed' i= t around with rudder with the exception of simulated single engine overshoot= training, the abrupt movement felt in the planes rear seats is would be ver= y uncomfortable due to the yaw.

I agree that cross c= ontrolling would not be a good thing while flying in this stage of flight bu= t I see no way to chalk this crash in the video up to this application of co= ntrols.

Fwiw
Jarrett Johnson
AT= PL
235/320 55% (and holding)

Sent from my iPhone
=
On 2012-05-11, at 12:31 PM, vtailje= ff@aol.com wrote:

Actually, those are CFI maneuvers. They are not on the private pilot p= ractical test standard.

Jeff 

Sent from= my iPad

On May 11, 2012, at 9:16 AM, "Alan Crawford" <alan@tstar.net> wrote:

Most pilots were demonstrated the "Cross Controlled=20= Stall" or "Over the Top Stall" - early in flight training ... this is a= =20 good time to review it. We have all over shot final at some point in=20 time ....
 
Watch this video of a King Air overshooting final. Thi= s is a=20 perfect example of what NOT TO DO!! The King Air was traveling too fast, ove= r=20 shot final, got too low. and tried to horse the plane around with right rudd= er=20 ... Guys and Gals ... this is what happens .....
 
 
Then when you have time to review http://www.faa.gov/library/manual= s/aircraft/airplane_handbook/media/faa-h-8083-3a-3of7.pdf page=20 4-10 - Cross Controlled Stalls.
 
Feel Free to pass this on ...
 
Blue Skies .... Alan <01_flag.gif>
 
 
 
Life is NOT a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving=20 safely
  in a pretty and well preserved body, BUT rather to skid in=20= broadside,
          =20= thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and=20 proclaiming,
          =             &nbs= p;    =20 "WOW, WHAT A RIDE!!!"
= --Apple-Mail-1B14BFC2-3898-4032-B210-5C182F7944A9--