X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 08:08:17 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.66] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.5) with ESMTP id 5521896 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 03 May 2012 19:07:31 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.66; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=oNiQ1NIELc/IbYjVWhBK6iryQX5Ir2Nsq5E6gN6l40mYmRf20mLNaRp31NSQQx8C; h=Received:From:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:To:References:Message-Id:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [64.222.159.235] (helo=[192.168.1.24]) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1SQ56o-0004qu-7M for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 03 May 2012 19:06:50 -0400 From: Colyn Case Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-61--850559194 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Necessity of A/C in IV-P? X-Original-Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 19:06:49 -0400 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: <61E941E1-E5C2-490B-8500-389DC4CFF8EE@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da940924b632d118595a00c4a58056eaf9ed1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 64.222.159.235 --Apple-Mail-61--850559194 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Charlie, how did that work out? You eventually added the airflow = systems unit right? Does that require a hole through the fuselage floor? On May 3, 2012, at 1:20 PM, Charlie Kohler wrote: LML gang In the years before AC was available, I developed a plan for Summer = (hot) flying. On take off I set the controller to 11,000 feet with the = Pressurized air to the cabin OFF. I opened the air valve from the fresh = air from the vertical stabilizer.=20 I took off and climbed to 11,000 feet . At 10,000 feet I closed the = fresh aHim himir from the vertical stabilizer and gradually selected the = pressurized air to the cabin to the ON position. Then as I continued to = climb I selected the cruise altitude on the pressurization controller = and adjusted the rate knob to 200 feet a minute descent. The cabin would = then descend and level off 1000 feet above selected altitude. On the descent into the landing airport-- I set the controller to 1000 = feet above field elevation.=20 Complicated maybe--but it kept the hot turbocharged air out of the = cabin until it was necessary. =20 Charlie K. =20 See me on the web at www.Lancair-IV.com =20 From: Jim Nordin To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 8:28 AM Subject: [LML] Necessity of A/C in IV-P? It can be really warn even at 17,000 feet without A/C in an IV-PT. Why? = The bleed air is super warm. Absolutely necessary? Not IMHO. But a few = letdowns from 20k+ and a drip drip drip off the end of your nose will = tell you it=92s nice. Or in summer heat in Houston, Phoenix or some = other sauna, it is even better than nice. Wouldn=92t it be good to use that air to air heat exchanger in line with = the bleed air to the cabin? HEAVY. Jim From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Dan & Kari Olsen Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 11:05 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Necessity of A/C in IV-P? =20 LML Gang, =20 With all the discussion of structural integrity compromises of the IV-P = fuselage by cutting air conditioning holes, I have a question for you = seasoned IV-P drivers=85 How necessary is air conditioning in this = aircraft? =20 I have been flying my 320 for almost 9 years now and certainly would = love to have had it during ground operations on hot summer days with the = green house canopy. However, once moving and at altitude, there is no = need. I realize that the IV-P is going to have warmer air because of = the pressurization but it is also typically flying much higher (colder = ambient) and it doesn=92t have the bubble canopy. =20 So, in normal cross country cruise operations above FL180, do any of you = that don=92t have A/C *really* wish that you had it? =20 I=92m early in the building of my IV-P and don=92t want to put it in for = several reasons: =B7 Weight =B7 Potential structural issues =B7 Cost =B7 One more thing to break down the road =20 I live in Colorado and will be using this plane as a cross country = traveler with my wife, so comfort is certainly a factor but not at all = costs. One thought is to get one of those cooler-with-ice-and-a-fan = systems to toss in the back seat for those few days that are very hot. =20 I appreciate your input. =20 Dan Olsen Fort Collins, CO N320DK =96 640hrs IV-P =96 10% done --Apple-Mail-61--850559194 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
LML = gang
In the years before AC was available, I = developed a plan for Summer (hot) flying. On take off I set the = controller to 11,000 feet with the Pressurized air to the = cabin OFF. I opened the air valve from the fresh air from the vertical = stabilizer. =

I took off and = climbed to 11,000 feet . At 10,000 feet I closed the fresh aHim himir = from the vertical stabilizer and gradually selected the pressurized air = to the cabin to the ON position. Then as I continued to climb I selected = the cruise altitude on the pressurization controller and adjusted the = rate knob to 200 feet a minute descent. The cabin would then descend and = level off 1000 feet above selected altitude.
On = the descent into the landing airport-- I set the controller to 1000 feet above field elevation. =

Complicated = maybe--but it  kept the hot turbocharged air out of the cabin until = it was necessary.
 
Charlie K.
=
 
See me on the web at
=
 

From: Jim Nordin <panelmaker@earthlink.net><= br> To: lml@lancaironline.net
= Sent: Thursday, May 3, = 2012 8:28 AM
Subject: [LML] Necessity of A/C in IV-P?
 =

=20 =20
It can be = really warn even at 17,000 feet without A/C in an IV-PT. Why? The bleed air is super warm. Absolutely necessary? Not IMHO. But a few letdowns from 20k+ and a drip drip drip = off the end of your nose will tell you it=92s nice. Or in summer heat in = Houston, Phoenix or some other sauna, it is even better than = nice.
Wouldn=92t it = be good to use that air to air heat exchanger in line with the bleed air to the cabin? = HEAVY.
Jim
From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Dan & Kari Olsen
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, = 2012 11:05 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Necessity = of A/C in IV-P?
 
LML Gang,
 
With all the discussion of structural integrity compromises of the IV-P = fuselage by cutting air conditioning holes, I have a question for you seasoned IV-P drivers=85  How necessary is air conditioning in this = aircraft?
 
I have been flying my 320 for almost 9 years now and certainly would love = to have had it during ground operations on hot summer days with the green house canopy.  However, once moving and at altitude, there is no = need.  I realize that the IV-P is going to have warmer air because of the = pressurization but it is also typically flying much higher (colder ambient) and it doesn=92t have the bubble canopy.
 
So, in normal cross country cruise operations above FL180, do any of you = that don=92t have A/C *really* = wish that you had it?
 
I=92m early in the building of my IV-P and don=92t want to put it in for = several reasons:
=B7         Weight
=B7         Potential structural issues
=B7         Cost
=B7         One more thing to break down the road
 
I live in Colorado and will be using this plane as a cross country = traveler with my wife, so comfort is certainly a factor but not at all costs.  = One thought is to get one of those cooler-with-ice-and-a-fan systems to toss = in the back seat for those few days that are very hot.
 
I appreciate your input.
 
Dan Olsen
Fort Collins, CO
N320DK =96 640hrs
IV-P =96 10% done



= --Apple-Mail-61--850559194--