X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 12:36:00 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm16-vm0.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com ([98.139.52.238] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with SMTP id 5409404 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 22 Feb 2012 00:49:49 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.52.238; envelope-from=chris_zavatson@yahoo.com Received: from [98.139.52.192] by nm16.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2012 05:49:14 -0000 Received: from [98.139.52.165] by tm5.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2012 05:49:14 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1048.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2012 05:49:14 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 411616.5262.bm@omp1048.mail.ac4.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 69811 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2012 05:49:13 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=rvROsxp8h+o83s2bjHzuCehIYThO9I6Zzl3nMhkF5zxt/FjO9etQxQKCynJz+jfDwD+54oMQvHBYGcODVjeYELxAakrgqXOrXX0WueJU8Go3YssjATT5d2lsflNOn57kc09t6Za/Jp436MH4puIFyTZRWN5mc7vWUL5gCRtgKfw=; X-YMail-OSG: V5ZL_GgVM1nXAh0UBxqWQNTu7dfD1gEN6DgS5yzk.6jDI02 99pirGg2tGQrNhHUzIHjEZP9PdAXEj4eLD2hmImJAJdGDLB3O3AAmJuDjfLq Bh3d3XAsz6Yl6MNYpU2J1xmFizeDZ_2uezP9OgvXXIkBGOYdOlfVNObLonbK .SlW7o0CJIPdbRB19LQs9Mhmqs41J5u7cExvpV9wCl9XqNFMbZCOtzGTdvM5 4AHfMnAh5j5_ggYc8lI5LVu9YFsTcBysP3YRk9lrLMeYE1xZgGp23HiSxRwE Mdh5msGOl5v40n0TyZApi2SsHCSjYuurlYKCMi.U1YYAOmZ4nq2k42MuMH.s uHenhKclyq09PMRKFzqEG7RTfeIOhqoxwiR8Jf6ZmibKobLKbnQGja225jZg RNw9serkB8SxgZ24c8dWUpLw9An2YOlJrp7.z3jusBzSmtMjEOD9z2ESooim oEzV7tDRyxOP8XLx8tppCd2gPJkJ.htdVyfeoFLKukL9t0J_eWZhDy9efCJx .d4Gje1Souln5ATJbaf2J3Qlc Received: from [76.246.36.224] by web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Feb 2012 21:49:13 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.116.338427 References: X-Original-Message-ID: <1329889753.48217.YahooMailNeo@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 21:49:13 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Zavatson Reply-To: Chris Zavatson Subject: Re: [LML] 360 rudder balance X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-2114655128-292612772-1329889753=:48217" ---2114655128-292612772-1329889753=:48217 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Consider the vertical position of the CG of the surface relative to the poi= nt from which it is being supported during balancing.=C2=A0=C2=A0Assume a= =C2=A0surface that=C2=A0is perfectly symmetric in the=C2=A0z direction.=C2= =A0 If you remove a hinge pin (1/4" bolt on the elevator, for example) and = hang the the surface by wire run through the hinge hole, the CG is=C2=A0bel= ow the support point and=C2=A0a balanced surface will tend to return to lev= el.=C2=A0 If the same surface was balanced by setting it=C2=A0down on hinge= pins (360 rudder, for example), the CG=C2=A0would=C2=A0now be above the su= pport point and the surface will be difficult to keep level.=C2=A0 If truly= balanced on the hinge center line,=C2=A0it will stay in any position.=C2= =A0 =0AIn reality the vertical CG position is not always known.=C2=A0 If th= e surface will not stay in position, look at which direction it wants to fa= ll when released from a level position.=C2=A0 If the surface does attain a = stable position it is easy to see which end is heavier.=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0ACh= ris Zavatson=0AN91CZ=0A360std=0Awww.N91CZ.net=0A=C2=A0=0AFrom: Jim Nordin <= panelmaker@earthlink.net>=0ATo: lml@lancaironline.net =0ASent: Tuesday, Feb= ruary 21, 2012 8:30 AM=0ASubject: [LML] 360 rudder balance=0A=0A=0AHummmm = =E2=80=A6 correct me if I=E2=80=99m wrong.=0ABalance of control surfaces is= attained when the component (aileron or elevator for example) hung at the = center of rotation and given a perturbation (trailing edge pushed down) min= imally returns to the level condition or better a small nose down condition= . Any other condition (leading edge high above level, trailing edge below l= evel) warrants adding weight to make the nose (leading edge) to settle belo= w level.=0ANose heavy is the point here. Any other condition may result in = flutter.=0AJim=0AFrom:Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] O= n Behalf Of Charles Brown=0ASent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:02 AM=0ATo: = lml@lancaironline.net=0ASubject: [LML] Re: 360 rudder balance=0A=C2=A0=0ATh= ey should stay in any position where you let them go. =C2=A0They should not= return to level. =C2=A0If they are out of balance, they will have some pre= ferred orientation (as you say, will move up or down).=0A=C2=A0=0ACharley B= rown=0AMS Aero/Astro Engineering=0A=C2=A0=0AOn Feb 20, 2012, at 6:51 AM, Bi= ll Bradburry wrote:=0A=0A=0AI have a question about balancing the flight su= rfaces.=C2=A0 If they are in balance, should they return to level from wher= e ever you move them to, or should they just stay where you put them.=0A=C2= =A0=0AI assume that if they are out of balance they will either move up or = down from level depending on whether you need to add or remove weight.=0A= =C2=A0=0ABill B ---2114655128-292612772-1329889753=:48217 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Consider the vertical position of the CG of the surf= ace relative to the point from which it is being supported during balancing= .  Assume a surface that is perfectly symmetric in the&= nbsp;z direction.  If you remove a hinge pin (1/4" bolt on the elevato= r, for example) and hang the the surface by wire run through the hinge hole= , the CG is below the support point and a balanced surface will t= end to return to level.  If the same surface was balanced by setting i= t down on hinge pins (360 rudder, for example), the CG would = ;now be above the support point and the surface will be difficult to keep l= evel.  If truly balanced on the hinge center line, it will stay in any position. 
In reality the verti= cal CG position is not always known.  If the surface will not stay in = position, look at which direction it wants to fall when released from a lev= el position= .  If the surface does attain a stable position it is easy to see which end is heavier. 
 
Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std
 
From:= Jim Nordin <panelmaker@earthlink.net>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:30 = AM
Subject: [LML] 360 ru= dder balance

Hummmm =E2=80=A6 correct me if I=E2=80=99m wrong.
Balance of control surfaces is attained when the component (aileron= or elevator for example) hung at the center of rotation and given a pertur= bation (trailing edge pushed down) minimally returns to the level condition= or better a small nose down condition. Any other condition (leading edge h= igh above level, trailing edge below level) warrants adding weight to make = the nose (leading edge) to settle below level.
Nose heavy is the point here. Any other condition may result in flu= tter.
Jim
From: Lancair Ma= iling List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Charles Brown
Sent: Tuesday, Februar= y 21, 2012 8:02 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject:= [LML] Re: 360 rudder balance
 =
They should stay in = any position where you let them go.  They should not return to level. =  If they are out of balance, they will have some preferred orientation= (as you say, will move up or down).
 =
Charley Brown=
MS Aero/Astro Engine= ering
 =
On Feb 20, 2012, at = 6:51 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote:


I have a= question about balancing the flight surfaces.  If they are in balance= , should they return to level from where ever you move them to, or should t= hey just stay where you put them.
 
I assume that if they are out of balance they will either mov= e up or down from level depending on whether you need to add or remove weig= ht.
 
Bill B
 
 


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