X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 15:07:51 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [69.146.254.20] (HELO crmtest.arilabs.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5046988 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 13:16:06 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.146.254.20; envelope-from=kevin@arilabs.net Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CC3E5B.C5290D4D" Subject: RE: [LML] Re: another Lancair X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 X-Original-Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 11:15:15 -0600 X-Original-Message-ID: <3E1C96B95693C640B0AC2F59D2500F3B0FE5E9@crmtest.arilabs.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [LML] Re: another Lancair Thread-Index: Acw+TcAh7OUEbFkkS421oigJi7auOQACuUgA From: "Kevin Stallard" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC3E5B.C5290D4D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, =20 When I first read your remarks, wasn't so sure about them, I have a couple of friends with Lancairs and one of them remarks on how poorly maintenance is kept up by some guys (I'm not flying yet, so I haven't had a chance to see first hand). But...you are right...give the engine fuel, air, rotation and a spark and they work. So why are the quitting? Even if they aren't tuned right, they still produce power, even if not optimally. =20 So the question is, how do we set up a test of our fuel system so we can test that configuration and flush out the gremlins? =20 I also agree with Ronald's remarks, some folks are not executing well when it comes to an engine out...but....I also agree that you don't hear about a lot of Cessna engine outs either. The other thing I would add to Ronald's note is that our forward speed is much higher, impacts with stationary objects release far more energy than say deads ticking something that stalls at 40 or 50 knots. =20 Back to the fuel system stuff. One of us needs to get something set up that represents the same head pressures and general orientation of the tubes and pipes that bring that life sustaining elixir (aka avgas) to our engines. I recently started my engine for the first time a few months ago, and had problems. The first attempt is The gas can was about 11% full and it turned out that the hose was sucking a little air. I had constantly hit the high pressure boost to keep the engine running. =20 =20 http://youtu.be/hIXqpxjyMco =20 (The decrease of RPM at times was also my testing of the constant speed prop, but the last run, the engine stopped because it ran out of gas). =20 Later runs (not recorded) the tube was fully immersed in fuel and it I didn't have a problem. As part of the test we should see what a loose fitting produces and how well the engine driven fuel pump works with a little air introduced into the system. =20 Lot's of questions here, I have to head to CA for some work, and so I can't do anything, but we should do something so we have a good idea on how robust our fuel system design is. =20 =20 Kevin =20 ________________________________ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 9:35 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: another Lancair =20 Jeff,=20 =20 I would like to go to Airventure, but this is a very busy time at work, so I can't take vacation during July or August. I have only been to OSH once, and that was pre-LOBO. =20 =20 I work in occupational safety, and is probably why I keep asking these questions. I'm looking for a common root cause, but I'm not hearing it. I have a hard time convincing myself that all of these Lancair pilots sitting in the left seat with an engine running at full power keep making life-ending decisions. If there is fuel in the tanks, the engine should keep running unless the pilot shuts off the mags, shuts off the fuel, or the engine blows up. I doubt that Cessna pilots have this track record? That indicates to me that there may be something more to this than simple pilot error. =20 =20 I am aware of one rotary engine fatal crash where the engine quit on takeoff. The pilot tried to make the "impossible turn" and crashed. The cause was determined to be a faulty fuel system design. I can't help but wonder if there may be a gremlin lurking somewhere in our fuel system. =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC3E5B.C5290D4D Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mark,

 

When I first read your remarks, wasn’t so sure about them, = I have a couple of friends with Lancairs and one of them remarks on how poorly maintenance is kept up by some guys (I’m not flying yet, so I = haven’t had a chance to see first hand).  But…you are = right…give the engine fuel, air, rotation and a spark and they work.  So why are = the quitting?  Even if they aren’t tuned right, they still = produce power, even if not optimally.

 

So the question is, how do we set up a test of our fuel system = so we can test that configuration and flush out the = gremlins?

 

I also agree with Ronald’s remarks, some folks are not = executing well when it comes to an engine out…but….I also agree that = you don’t hear about a lot of Cessna engine outs either.  The other thing I = would add to Ronald’s note is that our forward speed is much higher, = impacts with stationary objects release far more energy than say deads ticking = something that stalls at 40 or 50 knots.

 

Back to the fuel system stuff.   One of us needs to = get something set up that represents the same head pressures and general orientation = of the tubes and pipes that bring that life sustaining elixir (aka avgas) to = our engines.  I recently started my engine for the first time a few = months ago, and had problems.  The first attempt is The gas can was = about  11% full and it turned out that the hose was sucking a little air.  = I had constantly hit the high pressure boost to keep the engine running.  =

 

http://youtu.be/hIXqpxjyMco=

 

(The decrease of RPM at times was also my testing of the = constant speed prop, but the last run, the engine stopped because it ran out of = gas).

 

Later runs (not recorded) the tube was fully immersed in fuel = and it I didn’t have a problem.  As part of the test we should see what a loose = fitting produces and how well the engine driven fuel pump works with a little air = introduced into the system.

 

Lot’s of = questions here, I have to head to CA for some work, and so I can’t do = anything, but we should do something so we have a good idea on how robust our fuel = system design is.   

 

Kevin

 

From: = Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Saturday, July 09, = 2011 9:35 AM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: = another Lancair

 

Jeff, 

 

I would like to go to Airventure, but this is a very busy time = at work, so I can't take vacation during July or August.  I have only been = to OSH once, and = that was pre-LOBO.  

 

I work in occupational safety, and is probably why I keep asking = these questions.  I'm looking for a common root cause, but I'm not = hearing it.  I have a hard time convincing myself that all of these Lancair = pilots sitting in the left seat with an engine running at full power keep = making life-ending decisions.  If there is fuel in the tanks, the engine = should keep running unless the pilot shuts off the mags, shuts off the fuel, or = the engine blows up.  I doubt that Cessna pilots have this track = record?  That indicates to me that there may be something more to this than = simple pilot error.  

 

I am aware of one rotary engine fatal crash where the engine = quit on takeoff.  The pilot tried to make the "impossible turn" = and crashed.  The cause was determined to be a faulty fuel system = design.  I can't help but wonder if there may be a gremlin lurking = somewhere in our fuel system.  

 

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