X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 15:07:51 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.78.142] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5047011 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 14:29:26 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.78.142; envelope-from=vtailjeff@aol.com Received: from mtaout-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.1]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p69ISlnD002492 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2011 14:28:47 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.149] (24-107-65-42.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.65.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 60DD8E0001ED; Sat, 9 Jul 2011 14:28:39 -0400 (EDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8C148) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-4--931046594 X-Original-Message-Id: <06EB6604-31CC-45F6-BB8B-A20ECA08CB2D@aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8C148) From: vtailjeff@aol.com Subject: Re: [LML] Re: another Lancair X-Original-Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 13:28:35 -0500 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:472236128:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29014e189dd74fb2 X-AOL-IP: 24.107.65.42 --Apple-Mail-4--931046594 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mark, I am a CFI, former DPE (gave FAA checkrides) and an aircraft accident invest= igator. As a safety guy you should know there is rarely one common root caus= e. if you have a few hours call me. 314.308.6719 Jeff Sent from my iPad On Jul 9, 2011, at 10:34 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: > Jeff,=20 >=20 > I would like to go to Airventure, but this is a very busy time at work, so= I can't take vacation during July or August. I have only been to OSH once,= and that was pre-LOBO. =20 >=20 > I work in occupational safety, and is probably why I keep asking these que= stions. I'm looking for a common root cause, but I'm not hearing it. I hav= e a hard time convincing myself that all of these Lancair pilots sitting in t= he left seat with an engine running at full power keep making life-ending de= cisions. If there is fuel in the tanks, the engine should keep running unle= ss the pilot shuts off the mags, shuts off the fuel, or the engine blows up.= I doubt that Cessna pilots have this track record? That indicates to me t= hat there may be something more to this than simple pilot error. =20 >=20 > I am aware of one rotary engine fatal crash where the engine quit on takeo= ff. The pilot tried to make the "impossible turn" and crashed. The cause w= as determined to be a faulty fuel system design. I can't help but wonder if= there may be a gremlin lurking somewhere in our fuel system. =20 >=20 > Mark >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:40 AM, wrote: > Mark, > =20 > Yes, LOBO tracks these matters. Have you ever been to Oshkosh Airventure? T= hese accidents are discussed in detail there. Based on your comments about t= he engines you would be surprised. In many cases it was not the engine. > =20 > Jeff Edwards >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Steitle > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Sent: Thu, Jul 7, 2011 4:59 pm > Subject: [LML] Re: another Lancair >=20 > Steve,=20 >=20 > I agree, the pilot community lost another great guy. Even if he was a jer= k, we still need to solve this riddle. Is LOBO following up on each of thes= e crashes to learn what the experts determine to be the cause(s)? If not, w= e'll continue to be having these conversations until we eventually run out o= f pilots, or airplanes. >=20 > Mark=20 >=20 > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Steve Colwell wrote= : > =20 > I would sure would like to know why all of these "certified engines" are q= uitting on takeoff. =20 > =20 > Mark S.=20 > Maybe the engine driven fuel pump is failing. We are running low boost co= ntinuously in case the engine pump fails and to address fuel pressure issues= at altitude, hot fuel, vapor lock and other problems. =20 > I understand the engine will not make full power on low boost (reduce mani= fold pressure and settle for less power?) =20 > Or, it might quit if high boost is on and the mixture is not adjusted. =20= > Since engine driven pump failure, heat and altitude all affect fuel delive= ry, it would seem using the low boost continuously could solve or make these= problems manageable. =20 > Dr. Lyle Koen did our last two physicals. He was a very likeable guy who b= uilt one of the early IV=E2=80=99s and had over 1000 hours on it. We talked= to him about joining LOBO and coming to the Branson Fly-In.=20 > Given the more knowledgeable than usual witness account, could training ha= ve changed this outcome? > Steve Legacy IO550 > =20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-4--931046594 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Mark,

I am a C= FI, former DPE (gave FAA checkrides) and an aircraft accident investigator. A= s a safety guy you should know there is rarely one common root cause. if you= have a few hours call me.

314.308.6719
<= br>
Jeff

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 9, 2011, at= 10:34 AM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@g= mail.com> wrote:

Jeff, 

I would like to go to Airventure, but this= is a very busy time at work, so I can't take vacation during July or August= .  I have only been to OSH once, and that was pre-LOBO.  

I work in occupational safety, and is probably why I keep asking these q= uestions.  I'm looking for a common root cause, but I'm not hearing it.=  I have a hard time convincing myself that all of these Lancair pilots= sitting in the left seat with an engine running at full power keep making l= ife-ending decisions.  If there is fuel in the tanks, the engine should= keep running unless the pilot shuts off the mags, shuts off the fuel, or th= e engine blows up.  I doubt that Cessna pilots have this track rec= ord?  That indicates to me that there may be something more to this tha= n simple pilot error.  

I am aware of one rotary engine fatal crash where the en= gine quit on takeoff.  The pilot tried to make the "impossible turn" an= d crashed.  The cause was determined to be a faulty fuel system design.=  I can't help but wonder if there may be a gremlin lurking somewhere i= n our fuel system.  

Mark



On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:40 AM, <<= a href=3D"mailto:vtailjeff@aol.com">vta= iljeff@aol.com> wrote:
Mark,
 
Yes, LOBO tracks these matters. Have you ever been to Oshkosh Airventur= e? These accidents are discussed in detail there. Based on your comments abo= ut the engines you would be surprised. In many cases it was not the engine.<= /div>
 
Jeff Edwards



-----O= riginal Message-----
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Thu, Jul 7, 2011 4:59 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: another Lancair

Steve, 

I agree, the pilot community lost another great guy.  Even if he w= as a jerk, we still need to solve this riddle.  Is LOBO following up on= each of these crashes to learn what the experts determine to be the cause(s= )?  If not, we'll continue to be having these conversations until we ev= entually run out of pilots, or airplanes.

Mark 

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Steve Colwell <mcmess1919@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
I would sure would like to know why all of these= "certified engines" are quitting on takeoff.  
=
 
Mark S. 
Maybe the engine driven fuel pump is failing.  W= e are running low boost continuously in case the engine pump fails and to ad= dress fuel pressure issues at altitude, hot fuel, vapor lock and other probl= ems.  
I understand the engine will not make full power on l= ow boost (reduce manifold pressure and settle for less power?)   <= u>
Or, it might quit if high boost is on and the mixture= is not adjusted.   
Since engine driven pump failure, heat and altitude a= ll affect fuel delivery, it would seem using the low boost continuously coul= d solve or make these problems manageable.  
=
Dr. Lyle Koen did our last two physicals.  He wa= s a very likeable guy who built one of the early IV=E2=80=99s and had over 1= 000 hours on it.  We talked to him about joining LOBO and coming to the= Branson Fly-In. 
Given the more knowledgeable than usual witness accou= nt, could training have changed this outcome?
Steve  Legacy IO550
 

= --Apple-Mail-4--931046594--