X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 11:34:42 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [198.64.152.110] (HELO sdc.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5045956 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 08 Jul 2011 12:18:30 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=198.64.152.110; envelope-from=ronald@sdc.com Received: from [172.20.10.4] [166.205.137.232] by sdc.com with ESMTP (SMTPD-11.5) id e71a00016473a2bc; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 12:08:01 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.0.101115 X-Original-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 12:17:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: another Lancair From: RONALD STEVENS X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List X-Original-Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [LML] Re: another Lancair In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3392972272_1902392" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3392972272_1902392 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I am actually a bit surprised you all are looking into what and why the engine failed, I would concentrate more on 'what are we going to do when this happens'=20 An airplane really doesn't care if the engine is dead or not, as long as it has energy to keep aloft, right? But without the engine we all know we have to point the nose down and don't pray or try to be telekinetic and keeping it aloft by our brainpower. Or in other words, once we see the engine is dead than (and I thought this was the best remark I have seen, thanks), point the nose down, circle and pick your spot. And that is I think we should concentrate on, having training and instinctually keeping the nose down, having the right airspeed until we pick the spot in range to put the plane down. I know we all want t= o preserve our plane from damage, but the damage to our families are far greater then ' this piece of plastic' (and I know I am stepping on toes here, but I can't help it, human lives are far more important to me) I have seen similar conversations in the cirrus community, there they alway= s talk about ' why did he not pulled the chute', almost like it is telling them selves that 'this could not happen to me', but it does. I have been in a thunderstorm in a cirrus sr22, where I had the hardest tim= e to keep the plane straight, after I finally got out I noticed that I did no= t spend 1 second thinking of pulling the chute, why? Because I wasn't trained to do so. (now pulling a chute in a thunderstorm wouldn't do any good anyway, but that was not the issue) I think if you have training (and recurring training), to push the nose dow= n each time the CFII pulls the engine to idle and tells you that you have an engine emergency, that if you do this often enough, it will become an automatic, muscle memory event, and that this might save your life when 'shit hits the fan'. I applaud LOBO and all others doing this, and this tragic event shows to me how important this is. I just hope that we can increase safety by training and getting the right instincts to do so. -- Ronald From: Reply-To: Lancair Mailing List Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 08:40:06 -0400 To: Subject: [LML] Re: another Lancair Mark, =20 Yes, LOBO tracks these matters. Have you ever been to Oshkosh Airventure? These accidents are discussed in detail there. Based on your comments about the engines you would be surprised. In many cases it was not the engine. =20 Jeff Edwards -----Original Message----- From: Mark Steitle To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Thu, Jul 7, 2011 4:59 pm Subject: [LML] Re: another Lancair Steve,=20 I agree, the pilot community lost another great guy. Even if he was a jerk= , we still need to solve this riddle. Is LOBO following up on each of these crashes to learn what the experts determine to be the cause(s)? If not, we'll continue to be having these conversations until we eventually run out of pilots, or airplanes. Mark=20 On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Steve Colwell wrote: > =20 > I would sure would like to know why all of these "certified engines" are > quitting on takeoff. > =20 > Mark S.=20 > Maybe the engine driven fuel pump is failing. We are running low boost > continuously in case the engine pump fails and to address fuel pressure i= ssues > at altitude, hot fuel, vapor lock and other problems. > I understand the engine will not make full power on low boost (reduce man= ifold > pressure and settle for less power?) > Or, it might quit if high boost is on and the mixture is not adjusted. > Since engine driven pump failure, heat and altitude all affect fuel deliv= ery, > it would seem using the low boost continuously could solve or make these > problems manageable. > Dr. Lyle Koen did our last two physicals. He was a very likeable guy who > built one of the early IV=B9s and had over 1000 hours on it. We talked to = him > about joining LOBO and coming to the Branson Fly-In. > Given the more knowledgeable than usual witness account, could training h= ave > changed this outcome? > Steve Legacy IO550 > =20 --B_3392972272_1902392 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
I am actually a bit surprise= d you all are looking into what and why the engine failed, I would concentra= te more on 'what are we going to do when this happens' 

<= /div>
An airplane really doesn't care if the engine is dead or not, as l= ong as it has energy to keep aloft, right? But without the engine we all kno= w we have to point the nose down and don't pray or try to be telekinetic and= keeping it aloft by our brainpower.

Or in other wo= rds, once we see the engine is dead than (and I thought this was the best re= mark I have seen, thanks), point the nose down, circle and pick your spot. A= nd that is I think we should concentrate on, having training and instinctual= ly keeping the nose down, having the right airspeed until we pick the spot i= n range to put the plane down. I know we all want to preserve our plane from= damage, but the damage to our families are far greater then ' this piece of= plastic' (and I know I am stepping on toes here, but I can't help it, human= lives are far more important to me)

I have seen si= milar conversations in the cirrus community, there they always talk about ' = why did he not pulled the chute', almost like it is telling them selves that= 'this could not happen to me', but it does.

I have= been in a thunderstorm in a cirrus sr22, where I had the hardest time to ke= ep the plane straight, after I finally got out I noticed that I did not spen= d 1 second thinking of pulling the chute, why? Because I wasn't trained to d= o so. (now pulling a chute in a thunderstorm wouldn't do any good anyway, bu= t that was not the issue)

I think if you have train= ing (and recurring training), to push the nose down each time the CFII pulls= the engine to idle and tells you that you have an engine emergency, that if= you do this often enough, it will become an automatic, muscle memory event,= and that this might save your life when 'shit hits the fan'.

=
I applaud LOBO and all others doing this, and this tragic event s= hows to me how important this is. I just hope that we can increase safety by= training and getting the right instincts to do so.

-- Ronald


Fr= om: <vtailjeff@aol.com>=
Reply-To: Lancair Mailing List &l= t;lml@lancaironline.net>
Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 08:40:06 -0400To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
= Subject: [LML] Re: another Lancair

Mark,
 
Yes, LOBO tracks these matters. Ha= ve you ever been to Oshkosh Airventure? These accidents are discussed in det= ail there. Based on your comments about the engines you would be surprised. = In many cases it was not the engine.
 
Jeff Edwards=



-----Original Message-----=
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.c= om>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Thu, Jul 7, 2011 4:59 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: another Lancair

Steve, 

I agree, the pilot community lost another great guy. &n= bsp;Even if he was a jerk, we still need to solve this riddle.  Is LOBO= following up on each of these crashes to learn what the experts determine t= o be the cause(s)?  If not, we'll continue to be having these conversat= ions until we eventually run out of pilots, or airplanes.

Mark 

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:0= 5 PM, Steve Colwell <mcmess1919@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
I= would sure would like to know why all of these "certified engines" are quit= ting on takeoff.  
 
Mark S. 
Maybe the engine driven fuel pump is failing.  We are running = low boost continuously in case the engine pump fails and to address fuel pre= ssure issues at altitude, hot fuel, vapor lock and other problems.  =
<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">I understand the engine will no= t make full power on low boost (reduce manifold pressure and settle for less= power?)   
Or, it = might quit if high boost is on and the mixture is not adjusted.   =
Since engine driven pump fai= lure, heat and altitude all affect fuel delivery, it would seem using the lo= w boost continuously could solve or make these problems manageable.  
= Dr. Lyle Koen did our last two= physicals.  He was a very likeable guy who built one of the early IV&#= 8217;s and had over 1000 hours on it.  We talked to him about joining L= OBO and coming to the Branson Fly-In. 
Given the more knowledgeable than usual witness account, cou= ld training have changed this outcome?
Steve  Legacy IO550
 

<= /div>
=
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