X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 22:12:31 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from cgpro2.tulsaconnect.com ([65.38.1.5] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2o) with ESMTP id 4874389 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 19:38:09 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.38.1.5; envelope-from=kent@tulsaconnect.com Received: from [65.38.9.183] (HELO main) by cgpro2.tulsaconnect.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.1) with SMTP id 41409949 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:37:32 -0600 X-Original-Message-ID: <02722A0F763340E0AF58D4FEA62EE152@main> From: "Kent" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [may-be-spam] [LML] Re: Prop Balance X-Original-Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:37:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0042_01CBCED1.BCAAD4B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01CBCED1.BCAAD4B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So you are using the vibrex 2000. works about same as Microvibe=20 I'm still limping along with a 192A but I got friends who bough = microvibes. Chadwick was purchased by Honeywell few years ago and they are oriented = towards military/government market. Kent Felkins Tulsa ----- Original Message -----=20 From: marv@lancair.net=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 2:16 PM Subject: [may-be-spam] [LML] Re: Prop Balance Posted for Sky2high@aol.com: Marv, et al, =20 A little more interesting with a Lycoming....... Also, it is my =20 understanding that dynamic prop balances should be done close to = usual=20 operating RPM=20 or higher as rotational speed may alter the balance. =20 In my case (IO 320, Hartzell 2 blade) all dynamic balancing is done=20 between 2600-2700 RPM (2640 was my low altitude race rpm). I have = achieved=20 .001=20 ips. I am using a "motor" balancer that only records ips vertically = on the=20 engine center line as close to the front bearing as possible. Some = more=20 sophisticated balancers use sensors at both the front and back of = the engine=20 . =20 =20 Washers are bolted up to the appropriate 12 holes in the flywheel = and, =20 because of the 30 degree spread of the holes, weights are often split = between=20 two holes. After I had a re-seal job done on my current prop, the = first=20 step of the dynamic balance was greatly improved by moving all the = static=20 balance weights located near where the blade exits the hub to the = other=20 side.=20 =20 With the system I have a polar chart is used to locate a point =20 representing the angle reported by the device and the distance = representing=20 the ips. =20 Artistic interpretation is required to place and size the next = weight. =20 This process is repeated until <.05 ips. I.E. the last plotted = point is=20 very=20 close to the center of the chart. Oh well, the pricey sophisticated = balancers do all the thinking for ya. =20 =20 Every prop should be dynamically balanced - Think of the tune = "There's a =20 whole lotta shaking goin' on!" =20 Grayhawk=20 =20 [We normallly balance the M601/V508 combo between 1850 & 1900 RPM = (cruise) as red-line is 2080 and we recommend staying below 2050 for = takeoff anyway. The balancer we use _is_ one of those "pricey = sophisticated" jobs that not only does props but allows us to perform a = spectrum analysis on the engine to insure that the rotating parts are = also within balance limits. (It'll also do helicopter rotor balance and = blade tracking, but that's a bit beyond our purview.) The balance-weight = holes on the V508 spinner backplate are laid out in pairs and I've = created a protractor that allows us to readily match those hole = locations to the positions called out by the balancer for weight = addition. It is strictly by chance that a balance weight will be = required at precisely the location of one of the holes, so our machine = allows us to "split" the weights and tells us how much to add at each of = two points to equal the moment of the single weight required. We then = get to tell it exactly how much weight was added at each of the two = points (it's tough to hit exactly the hundredths parts of a gram all the = time) and it uses that data during the subsequent run to adjust the real = location. Within about 4 iterations it's usually between .01 and .02 = IPS. WIth the balance completed the Vibrex allows us to print the chart = you described, showing how the path of imbalance worked its way to the = center of the bullseye. It's really quite the amazing device and = process. Wish I'd thought of it. ] In a message dated 2/17/2011 10:16:01 A.M. Central Standard Time, =20 marv@lancair.net writes: =20 Posted for "Kent" : =20 I wonder which brand of equipment was used? Interesting the manual cites tolerance much tighter than industry =20 standard. =20 Do people have any idea or appreciate how much weight difference or = change=20 in=20 location affects the balance reading? =20 Is that reading a raw value or averaged value? =20 An AN960-10 washer weighs one gram. I don't recall what the = Walter=20 spinner's diameter is but it is a large one, about 14-15 inches I = think. =20 Kent Felkins Tulsa Oklahoma =20 =20 [Spinner diameter on a V508 is about 18.5". And Brian's absolutely=20 correct... balance that prop down to .01 or .02 IPS and there's no=20 detectable=20 vibration at normal operating speeds. Here at DIemech we use custom = made=20 lightweight fasteners for the extra light weights... typical AN = hardward=20 can't=20 get you below about 3-4 grams, and that's a real problem when = getting down=20 to the fine tuning. Ain't technology grand. ] =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Alley" To: Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 7:04 AM Subject: [LML] Prop Balance =20 =20 > Working on David Weinsweigs IVPT this evening with a dynamic prop=20 balancer we =20 >found the initial readings to be .22 ips (inches per second) at 1900 = rpm.=20 >After several engine runs and weight placement we were able to = achieve=20 >multiple readings of .01 and .02 ips at 1900 rpm. The manual says=20 anything=20 >under .05 ips is acceptable. The Walter 601EX with Avia prop is a = very=20 smooth=20 >installation but with the prop properly balanced it should be like = an=20 electric=20 >motor. If anyone is interested in this service, please feel free to=20 contact me=20 >by phone or email. > > BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT) > CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES > 101 Caroline Circle > Hurricane, WV 25526 > www.carbonfibercomposites.net > 304-562-6800 home > 304-395-4932 cell > > How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your = neck? > > -- > For archives and unsub =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3449 - Release Date: = 02/17/11 >=20 =20 =20 -- =20 =20 =20 For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html =20 -- For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3449 - Release Date: = 02/17/11 ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01CBCED1.BCAAD4B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
So you are using the vibrex = 2000.
 
works about same as Microvibe =
 
I'm still limping along with a 192A but = I got=20 friends who bough microvibes.
 
Chadwick was purchased by Honeywell few = years ago=20 and they are oriented towards military/government market.
 
Kent Felkins
Tulsa
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 marv@lancair.net=20
Sent: Thursday, February 17, = 2011 2:16=20 PM
Subject: [may-be-spam] [LML] = Re: Prop=20 Balance

Posted for Sky2high@aol.com:

 Marv,= et=20 al,
 
 A little more interesting with a=20 Lycoming.......  Also, it is = my  
 understanding=20 that dynamic prop balances should be done close to  usual=20
operating RPM
 or higher as rotational speed may alter=20 the  balance.
 
 In my case (IO 320, = Hartzell 2=20 blade) all dynamic balancing is  done
 between = 2600-2700=20 RPM (2640 was my low altitude race rpm).  I  have = achieved=20
.001
 ips.  I am using a "motor" balancer that = only=20 records  ips vertically on the
 engine center line = as close=20 to the front bearing as  possible.  Some more=20
 sophisticated balancers use sensors at both the = front  and=20 back of the engine
 .  
 
 Washers = are=20 bolted up to the appropriate 12 holes in the flywheel=20 and,  
 because of the 30 degree spread of the = holes,=20 weights are often split
 between
 two=20 holes.  After I had a re-seal job done on my current prop,=20 the  first
 step of the dynamic balance was greatly = improved by moving all the  static
 balance weights = located=20 near where the blade exits the hub to the  other
side.=20
 
 With the system I have a polar chart is used to = locate a=20 point  
 representing the angle reported by the = device and=20 the distance representing
 the = ips.  
 Artistic=20 interpretation is required to place and size the  next=20 weight.  
 This process is repeated until <.05=20 ips.  I.E. the  last plotted point is
very=20
 close to the center of the chart.  Oh well,=20 the  pricey sophisticated
 balancers do all the = thinking=20 for ya.  
 
 Every prop should be = dynamically=20 balanced - Think of the tune "There's a  
 whole = lotta=20 shaking goin' on!"
 
 Grayhawk
 

[We = normallly=20 balance the M601/V508 combo between 1850 & 1900 RPM (cruise) as = red-line=20 is 2080 and we recommend staying below 2050 for takeoff anyway.  = The=20 balancer we use _is_ one of those "pricey sophisticated" jobs that not = only=20 does props but allows us to perform a spectrum analysis on the engine = to=20 insure that the rotating parts are also within balance limits. (It'll = also do=20 helicopter rotor balance and blade tracking, but that's a bit beyond = our=20 purview.) The balance-weight holes on the V508 spinner backplate are = laid out=20 in pairs and I've created a protractor that allows us to readily match = those=20 hole locations to the positions called out by the balancer for weight=20 addition.  It is strictly by chance that a balance weight will be = required at precisely the location of one of the holes, so our machine = allows=20 us to "split" the weights and tells us how much to add at each of two = points=20 to equal the moment of the single weight required.  We then get = to tell=20 it exactly how much weight was added at each of the two points (it's = tough to=20 hit exactly the hundredths parts of a gram all the time) and it uses = that data=20 during the subsequent run to adjust the real location.  Within = about 4=20 iterations it's usually between .01 and .02 IPS.  WIth the = balance=20 completed the Vibrex allows us to print the chart you described, = showing how=20 the path of imbalance worked its way to the center of the = bullseye.  It's=20 really quite the amazing device and process.  Wish I'd thought of = it.  <Marv>     =20 ]




 In a message dated 2/17/2011 10:16:01 A.M. = Central=20 Standard Time,  
 marv@lancair.net=20 writes:
 
 Posted for=20 "Kent"  <kent@tulsaconnect.com>:
 
 I = wonder=20 which brand of  equipment  was = used?
 Interesting=20 the manual cites  tolerance  much tighter than=20 industry  
 standard.
 
 Do people = have any=20 idea or appreciate how much  weight difference or change=20
 in
 location affects the=20 balance  reading?
 
 Is that reading a raw = value or=20 averaged  value?
 
 An   AN960-10 = washer=20 weighs one  gram.  I don't recall what the Walter=20
 spinner's diameter is but  it is a large one, = about 14-15=20 inches=20 = I  think.
 
 Kent  Felkins
 T= ulsa  Oklahoma
 
 
 [Spinner=20 diameter on a V508 is about  18.5".  And Brian's=20 absolutely
 correct... balance that prop down to = .01  or=20 .02 IPS and there's no
detectable
 vibration at normal=20 operating  speeds.  Here at DIemech we use custom = made=20
 lightweight fasteners for the  extra light = weights...=20 typical AN hardward
can't
 get you below about=20 3-4  grams, and that's a real problem when getting down =
 to=20 the fine tuning.   Ain't technology=20 = grand.  <Marv>    ]
 
&nbs= p;
 -----=20 Original Message ----- From: "Brian  Alley"=20 = <n320wt@yahoo.com>
 To:  <lml@lancaironline.ne= t>
 Sent:=20 Thursday, February 17, 2011 7:04  AM
 Subject: [LML] = Prop=20 Balance
 
 
> Working on  David = Weinsweigs=20 IVPT this evening with a dynamic prop
 balancer=20 we  
>found the initial readings to be .22 ips (inches = per=20 second) at 1900  rpm.
>After several engine runs and = weight=20 placement we were able to  achieve
>multiple readings = of .01=20 and .02 ips at 1900 rpm. The manual  says
 anything =
>under .05 ips is acceptable. The Walter 601EX with=20 Avia  prop is a very
 smooth
>installation = but with=20 the prop properly balanced  it should be like an =
 electric=20
>motor. If anyone is interested in this  service, = please feel=20 free to
 contact me
>by phone=20 or  email.
>
> BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT)
> = CARBON=20 FIBER  COMPOSITES
> 101 Caroline Circle
> = Hurricane, WV=20 25526
>  www.carbonfibercomposites.net
> = 304-562-6800=20 home
> 304-395-4932  cell
>
> How are you = going to=20 win by a nose if you don't stick out  your = neck?
>
>=20 --
> For archives and=20 = unsub  
 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/Lis= t.html
>
>
>  -----
>=20 No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG=20 -  www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database:=20 1435/3449 - Release  Date: 02/17/11
>=20
 
 
 --
 
 
 
For = archives=20 and unsub=20 = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
 

--

For archives and unsub =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html

No virus found in = this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1204 / = Virus=20 Database: 1435/3449 - Release Date: = 02/17/11

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