X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:07:47 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.63] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTP id 4648217 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:15:04 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.63; envelope-from=panelmaker@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=fRrcY3ZfG1Se2ZIr0avKsseF9AkKbRqP2nnW5L0IwxS3AJYlOkJzByqtU5vUtoXQ; h=Received:From:To:References:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:Thread-Index:In-Reply-To:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.173.71.183] (helo=DELL8300) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1PUiNZ-0005Mc-6P for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:14:29 -0500 From: "Jim Nordin" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: Subject: JPI X-Original-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:14:37 -0600 X-Original-Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01CBA02E.B4E557E0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 Thread-Index: Acuf2jyv2ncSM1+ZS/emLjkv1cvokAAfeR7Q In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: bdfc62829fd2a80cc8ad50643b1069f8239a348a220c26090d5bf76384488d92b11c94b894de22c6a2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.173.71.183 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01CBA02E.B4E557E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=92ve really hesitated sending this note afraid my lack of knowledge = may be demonstrated. But what the hey =85 here =91tis. =20 Among other things, JPI continues to espouse a wife=92s tale on =93shock cooling=94. I=92ve asked many times for them to provide empirical data = to support their claim. Apparently no empirical data exists and that = translates to rumor or worse. I was going to buy their product but changed my mind = when I learned they sell products by scaring people about events that don=92t happen. From their website : =20 =93An old and common misconception that other manufacturers of EGT = monitors promote is that it is not necessary to know the exact exhaust gas temperatures of your aircraft's engine. However, if you have read recent reports, shock cooling can be catastrophic! The EDM alerts the pilot of those conditions which are most vital to the maintenance of well = performing engine. The value in measuring EGT lies in finding the ideal ratio of = fuel to air that results in complete combustion, and in long-term trend monitoring.=94 =20 What reports? What data? Catastrophic? How is shock cooling associated = to EGT? Wouldn=92t that be CHT? I understand =85 not necessarily. Their claim is cooling by sudden reduction in throttle will/could cause = a catastrophic event. What is the event? Cracked head, cylinder? Driving = the engine? Sticking valves? Wouldn=92t flying into rain or worse be an = event you could expect sudden cooling to cause major damage? Or how about turning = off the ignition? From making plenty heat to making none. Quick cool down (>100=BAF/minute) would be equal to shock cooling. This wife=92s tale = continues to be over my head. If I=92m not mistaken, GAMI says shock cooling is a = myth. Wouldn=92t they know? Pointing to a manufacturer=92s prohibited = operating regime (pull the throttle to idle at altitude), legitimate or not, is no justification to make instruments that prevent you from operating there. = Do the tests before you sell instruments that prevent you from doing = something that doesn=92t matter. Well, the idea of =93if it=92s good enough for = Lycoming and Continental, it=92s good enough for me=94 just doesn=92t sell today. CYA = is a big business justification. =20 So this is perpetuating manufactures=92 CYA on operating under any circumstance that might =96 MIGHT =96 cause a warranty issue. LOP for = example! http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182883-1.html=20 =20 I=92m not saying their instruments are not quality. I=92m satisfied they = are good quality. They likely report accurately. However, measuring = something and making unsubstantiated claims as to what the measurements mean is = not a responsible way to sell a product. =20 JPI? I think they=92re reaching and with no limb to grab (competition is fierce) they may claim things with their instruments that are useless. = You want to measure it and do something about the measurement? Fine by me. = But gee whiz, airplane stuff is already so expensive =85 why spend it on = things that don=92t matter? That=92s not a rhetorical question. Educate me. Jim =20 _____ =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Colyn Case Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 6:10 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: VM 1000 =20 technical readers press delete. I just wanted to say I have been so = excited with jpi ever since they decided they owned my data that I used the = edm700 that came with my project to monitor temperatures around the cowling and bleep if something gets too hot. =20 the little man in there is not happy. He keeps saying "you disconnected = my probe". =20 On Dec 16, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Janie & Ed Smith wrote: In regards to the question about the VM 1000, in it's day it was a fine piece of equipment. But it's outdated and hard to get repaired or = support. It is also extremely limited in it's functionality I would urge you to look at some of the newer engine monitors. In fact = most of the EFIS companies have an engine monitor integral in the unit. A = couple to look at would be Dynon or Advanced flight systems. There is also the = MVP -50 which is a stand alone but will display on some EFIS. Jon=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01CBA02E.B4E557E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I=92ve really hesitated sending this = note afraid my lack of knowledge may be demonstrated. But what the hey =85 here = =91tis.

 

Among other things, JPI continues to espouse a wife=92s tale on =93shock cooling=94. I=92ve asked many times = for them to provide empirical data to support their claim. Apparently no empirical = data exists and that translates to rumor or worse. I was going to buy their = product but changed my mind when I learned they sell products by scaring people = about events that don=92t happen. From their = website:

 

=93An old and = common misconception that other manufacturers of EGT monitors promote is that = it is not necessary to know the exact exhaust gas temperatures of your = aircraft's engine. However, if you have read recent reports, shock cooling can be catastrophic! The EDM alerts = the pilot of those conditions which are most vital to the maintenance of well = performing engine. The value in measuring EGT lies in finding the ideal ratio of = fuel to air that results in complete combustion, and in long-term trend = monitoring.=94

 

What reports? What data? = Catastrophic? How is shock cooling associated to EGT? Wouldn=92t that be CHT? I understand = =85 not necessarily.

Their claim is cooling by sudden = reduction in throttle will/could cause a catastrophic event. What is the event? = Cracked head, cylinder? Driving the engine? Sticking valves? Wouldn=92t flying = into rain or worse be an event you could expect sudden cooling to cause major = damage? Or how about turning off the ignition? From making plenty heat to making = none. Quick cool down (>100=BAF/minute) would be equal to shock cooling. = This wife=92s tale continues to be over my head. If I=92m not mistaken, GAMI says = shock cooling is a myth. Wouldn=92t they know? Pointing to a manufacturer=92s = prohibited operating regime (pull the throttle to idle at altitude), legitimate or = not, is no justification to make instruments that prevent you from operating = there. Do the tests before you sell instruments that prevent you from doing = something that doesn=92t matter. Well, the idea of =93if it=92s good enough for = Lycoming and Continental, it=92s good enough for me=94 just doesn=92t sell today. CYA = is a big business justification.

 

So this is perpetuating = manufactures=92 CYA on operating under any circumstance that might =96 MIGHT =96 cause a = warranty issue. LOP for example!

http://www.avweb.c= om/news/maint/182883-1.html

 

I=92m not saying their instruments = are not quality. I=92m satisfied they are good quality. They likely report = accurately. However, measuring something and making unsubstantiated claims as to what the measurements mean is not a responsible way to sell a = product.

 

JPI? I think they=92re reaching and = with no limb to grab (competition is fierce) they may claim things with their instruments that are useless. You want to measure it and do something = about the measurement? Fine by me. But gee whiz, airplane stuff is already so = expensive =85 why spend it on things that don=92t matter? That=92s not a rhetorical = question. Educate me.

Jim

 

From: = Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Colyn Case
Sent: Sunday, December = 19, 2010 6:10 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: VM = 1000

 

technical readers press delete.  I just wanted to say I have = been so excited with jpi ever since they decided they owned my data that I used = the edm700 that came with my project to monitor temperatures around the = cowling and bleep if something gets too hot.

 

the little man in there is not happy.  He keeps saying = "you disconnected my probe".

 

On Dec 16, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Janie & Ed Smith = wrote:



In regards to the question about the VM 1000,  in it's day = it was a fine piece of equipment. But it's outdated and hard to get repaired or support. It is also extremely limited in it's functionality
I would urge you to look at some of the newer engine monitors. In fact = most of the EFIS companies have an engine monitor integral in the unit. A couple = to look at would be Dynon or Advanced flight systems. There is also the MVP = -50 which is a stand alone but will display on some EFIS.

Jon 

 

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