X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 07:30:42 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from snt0-omc3-s33.snt0.hotmail.com ([65.55.90.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4577063 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:54:30 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.90.172; envelope-from=bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com Received: from SNT139-W24 ([65.55.90.137]) by snt0-omc3-s33.snt0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 12 Nov 2010 13:53:55 -0800 X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_acd65f97-9cc3-45cc-9ff4-f96dd9552755_" X-Originating-IP: [71.111.125.230] From: Bill Kennedy X-Original-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Retrofitting a 360 X-Original-Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 13:53:55 -0800 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2010 21:53:55.0458 (UTC) FILETIME=[1A257E20:01CB82B4] --_acd65f97-9cc3-45cc-9ff4-f96dd9552755_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with Bill. I've had great service with my standard system and the l= ow cost tires (and=2C for that matter=2C the standard brake system). I have= learned to keep plenty of air pressure in the tires to avoid tube pinch. Bill Kennedy N42BK 615 hours To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri=2C 12 Nov 2010 16:44:42 -0500 From: n5zq@verizon.net Subject: [LML] Re: Retrofitting a 360 Danny=2C =20 I mostly agree with what Rob says about the mods that you asked about.=20 *Canopy will be exactly has he describes. *Long engine mount is easy IF (and this is a big IF) you can find a long=20 engine mount.=20 *Outback gear? Why? We=92ve been flying our 320 off grass=2C dirt and all k= inds=20 of =93unimproved=94 strips for a lotta years. We=92ve also flown it a lot a= t rather=20 heavy weights. Never had any problem with the standard gear. What do you ho= pe to=20 do with the outback gear that you can=92t do with the standard? My advice i= s to=20 keep the standard gear but install Ong=92s deboingers and Grove wheels and = brakes.=20 That=92ll give you a pretty robust undercarrage and at around $15 bucks a p= iece=20 you can buy a lot of Chin tires for the price of a Goodyear. (I=92ve never = had a=20 blowout=2C a flat or any other problem with the Chins). =20 Bill Harrelson N5ZQ 320 1=2C850 hrs N6ZQ IV under construction =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: rwolf99@aol.com=20 Sent: Friday=2C November 12=2C 2010 7:31 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Subject: [LML] Retrofitting a 360 =20 Danny - =20 Some thoguhts from a 360 builder (but not yet flying). =20 1) Canopy -- If you are considering retrofitting a forward hinged=20 canopy to a finished 360 with a parallelogram canopy=2C here are some thing= s to=20 consider. The forward hinge canopy attaches to brackets which go into=20 "pockets" in the aft face of the header tank. If the back face of the=20 header tank is flat=2C you will need to "make" pockets by hacking up the he= ader=20 tank. That would be a real pain=2C in my opinion=2C but anything can be=20 done. There are instructions for doing this with the forward hinge canopy= =20 hardware. My 360 came with parallelogram canopy hardware but a "pocketed"= =20 header tank=2C and I subsequently purchased the forward hinge hardware. So= =20 you might luck out there and find a parallelogram canopy installation onto = a=20 pocketed tank. If the plane does not have a header tank at all you've got= =20 a bigger problem -- no place to attach the brackets for the hinges. =20 Regardless of header tank configuration=2C you will have to reinforce the f= ront of=20 the canopy with 80 feet of unidirectional carbon fiber. You may also=20 choose to trim the canopy sides to make them thinner and gain about an inch= of=20 shoulder room. This particular modification work should not be too hard=2C= =20 but you'll trash the interior paint on the canopy. Not a biggie=2C I=20 think. You'll also need to cut a slot in the back rest for the handle and= =20 affix nylon pivot blocks to the inside walls just behind the seat. Plus=20 cut slots into the rollover structure for the latches and make a hole in th= e=20 side of the plane for the handle. Also cut holes in your glareshield for=20 the hinges. All is doable but I'm not sure I would bother. =20 Guesses? $1000 for materials and parts and 250 hours labor. Plus=20 paint. Just a guess. =20 2) Long engine mount -- This will probably make maintenance a lot=20 easier. Will also move your CG forward and make it fly better. I=20 think all you'll need to do is unbolt the mount=2C make sure the new mount = fits in=20 the old holes=2C and move the engine and its accessories over. Then you'll= =20 need to extend the cowling to fill the gap. As fiberglass work goes that's= =20 not too bad. You will have to re-do the cowling fasteners=2C of=20 course. And you might need longer hoses in a couple of places=2C but that'= s=20 just writing a check. Guesses? $500 for a new mount=2C $700 for=20 materials including new cowl fastener parts and new hoses=2C a weekend for = the=20 changeover and 75 hours labor for extending the canopy and redoing the cowl= =20 fasteners. Plus paint. =20 3) Landing gear -- I have long considered the Lancair landing gear to=20 be the weak link in the airplane. Tinkertoy struts supporting go-kart=20 wheels and bicycle brakes. Okay=2C so maybe that's a little harsh but if y= ou=20 compare the Lancair gear to any certified airplane of the same or similar w= eight=20 and you see Twiggy supporting the Lancair and (fil in your favorite female = WWE=20 start here) supporting the spam can. (wait=2C where was I? I lost my train= =20 of thoguth for a moment) Oh=2C yes=2C and it's not just the gear -- the fl= aps=20 are totally different as well. This is a huge modification which I would=20 stay away from. But again=2C I know nothing about the outback gear.=20 Guesses? Megabucks for the parts and a year or two for the labor. =20 (Okay=2C maybe I exaggerate a little.) =20 Hope this helps. =20 - Rob Wolf Tucson AZ = --_acd65f97-9cc3-45cc-9ff4-f96dd9552755_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with Bill. I've had great service with my standard system and the l= ow cost tires (and=2C for that matter=2C the standard brake system). I have= learned to keep plenty of air pressure in the tires to avoid tube pinch.
Bill Kennedy
N42BK 615 hours

To: lm= l@lancaironline.net
Date: Fri=2C 12 Nov 2010 16:44:42 -0500
From: n5z= q@verizon.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Retrofitting a 360

Danny=2C
 =3B
I mostly agree with what Rob says about the mods that you asked about.= =20
*Canopy will be exactly has he describes.
*Long engine mount is easy IF (and this is a big IF) you can find a lo= ng=20 engine mount.
*Outback gear? Why? We=92ve been flying our 320 off grass=2C dirt and = all kinds=20 of =93unimproved=94 strips for a lotta years. We=92ve also flown it a lot a= t rather=20 heavy weights. Never had any problem with the standard gear. What do you ho= pe to=20 do with the outback gear that you can=92t do with the standard? My advice i= s to=20 keep the standard gear but install Ong=92s deboingers and Grove wheels and = brakes.=20 That=92ll give you a pretty robust undercarrage and at around $15 bucks a p= iece=20 you can buy a lot of Chin tires for the price of a Goodyear. (I=92ve never = had a=20 blowout=2C a flat or any other problem with the Chins).
 =3B
Bill Harrelson
N5ZQ 320 1=2C850 hrs
N6ZQ =3B IV under construction
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B
Sent: Friday=2C November 12=2C 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: [LML] Retrofitting a 360
 =3B
Danny -
 =3B
Some thoguhts from a 360 builder (but not yet flying).
 =3B
1) =3B Canopy -- If you are considering retrofitting a forward hin= ged=20 canopy to a finished 360 with a parallelogram canopy=2C here are some thing= s to=20 consider. =3B The forward hinge canopy attaches to brackets which go in= to=20 "pockets" in the aft face of the header tank. =3B If the back face of t= he=20 header tank is flat=2C you will need to "make" pockets by hacking up the he= ader=20 tank. =3B That would be a real pain=2C in my opinion=2C but anything ca= n be=20 done. =3B There are instructions for doing this with the forward hinge = canopy=20 hardware. =3B My 360 came with parallelogram canopy hardware but a "poc= keted"=20 header tank=2C and I subsequently purchased the forward hinge hardware.&nbs= p=3B So=20 you might luck out there and find a parallelogram canopy installation onto = a=20 pocketed tank. =3B If the plane does not have a header tank at all you'= ve got=20 a bigger problem -- no place to attach the brackets for the hinges. =3B= =20 Regardless of header tank configuration=2C you will have to reinforce the f= ront of=20 the canopy with 80 feet of unidirectional carbon fiber. =3B You may als= o=20 choose to trim the canopy sides to make them thinner and gain about an inch= of=20 shoulder room. =3B This particular modification work should not be too = hard=2C=20 but you'll trash the interior paint on the canopy. =3B Not a biggie=2C = I=20 think. =3B You'll also need to cut a slot in the back rest for the hand= le and=20 affix nylon pivot blocks to the inside walls just behind the seat. =3B = Plus=20 cut slots into the rollover structure for the latches and make a hole in th= e=20 side of the plane for the handle. =3B Also cut holes in your glareshiel= d for=20 the hinges. =3B All is doable but I'm not sure I would bother. =3B= =20 Guesses? =3B $1000 for materials and parts and 250 hours labor. =3B= Plus=20 paint. =3B Just a guess.
 =3B
2) =3B Long engine mount -- This will probably make maintenance a = lot=20 easier. =3B Will also move your CG forward and make it fly better. = =3B I=20 think all you'll need to do is unbolt the mount=2C make sure the new mount = fits in=20 the old holes=2C and move the engine and its accessories over. =3B Then= you'll=20 need to extend the cowling to fill the gap. =3B As fiberglass work goes= that's=20 not too bad. =3B You will have to re-do the cowling fasteners=2C of=20 course. =3B And you might need longer hoses in a couple of places=2C bu= t that's=20 just writing a check. =3B Guesses? =3B $500 for a new mount=2C $700= for=20 materials including new cowl fastener parts and new hoses=2C a weekend for = the=20 changeover and 75 hours labor for extending the canopy and redoing the cowl= =20 fasteners. =3B Plus paint.
 =3B
3) =3B Landing gear -- I have long considered the Lancair landing = gear to=20 be the weak link in the airplane. =3B Tinkertoy struts supporting go-ka= rt=20 wheels and bicycle brakes. =3B Okay=2C so maybe that's a little harsh b= ut if you=20 compare the Lancair gear to any certified airplane of the same or similar w= eight=20 and you see Twiggy supporting the Lancair and (fil in your favorite female = WWE=20 start here) supporting the spam can. (wait=2C where was I? =3B I lost m= y train=20 of thoguth for a moment) =3B Oh=2C yes=2C and it's not just the gear --= the flaps=20 are totally different as well. =3B This is a huge modification which I = would=20 stay away from. =3B But again=2C I know nothing about the outback gear.= =20 Guesses? =3B Megabucks for the parts and a year or two for the labor.&n= bsp=3B=20 (Okay=2C maybe I exaggerate a little.)
 =3B
Hope this helps.
 =3B
- Rob Wolf
Tucson AZ
= --_acd65f97-9cc3-45cc-9ff4-f96dd9552755_--