X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:44:42 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from vms173005pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.5] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4576395 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 08:16:32 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.5; envelope-from=n5zq@verizon.net Received: from p6520y ([unknown] [173.72.167.62]) by vms173005.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0LBR00AWHWUERCG0@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 07:15:51 -0600 (CST) X-Original-Message-id: From: "Bill Harrelson" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: In-reply-to: Subject: Re: [LML] Retrofitting a 360 X-Original-Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 08:15:43 -0500 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008B_01CB8241.CD57F590" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3502.922 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3502.922 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01CB8241.CD57F590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Danny, I mostly agree with what Rob says about the mods that you asked about.=20 *Canopy will be exactly has he describes. *Long engine mount is easy IF (and this is a big IF) you can find a long = engine mount.=20 *Outback gear? Why? We=E2=80=99ve been flying our 320 off grass, dirt = and all kinds of =E2=80=9Cunimproved=E2=80=9D strips for a lotta years. = We=E2=80=99ve also flown it a lot at rather heavy weights. Never had any = problem with the standard gear. What do you hope to do with the outback = gear that you can=E2=80=99t do with the standard? My advice is to keep = the standard gear but install Ong=E2=80=99s deboingers and Grove wheels = and brakes. That=E2=80=99ll give you a pretty robust undercarrage and at = around $15 bucks a piece you can buy a lot of Chin tires for the price = of a Goodyear. (I=E2=80=99ve never had a blowout, a flat or any other = problem with the Chins). Bill Harrelson N5ZQ 320 1,850 hrs N6ZQ IV under construction From: rwolf99@aol.com=20 Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 7:31 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Subject: [LML] Retrofitting a 360 Danny - Some thoguhts from a 360 builder (but not yet flying). 1) Canopy -- If you are considering retrofitting a forward hinged = canopy to a finished 360 with a parallelogram canopy, here are some = things to consider. The forward hinge canopy attaches to brackets which = go into "pockets" in the aft face of the header tank. If the back face = of the header tank is flat, you will need to "make" pockets by hacking = up the header tank. That would be a real pain, in my opinion, but = anything can be done. There are instructions for doing this with the = forward hinge canopy hardware. My 360 came with parallelogram canopy = hardware but a "pocketed" header tank, and I subsequently purchased the = forward hinge hardware. So you might luck out there and find a = parallelogram canopy installation onto a pocketed tank. If the plane = does not have a header tank at all you've got a bigger problem -- no = place to attach the brackets for the hinges. Regardless of header tank = configuration, you will have to reinforce the front of the canopy with = 80 feet of unidirectional carbon fiber. You may also choose to trim the = canopy sides to make them thinner and gain about an inch of shoulder = room. This particular modification work should not be too hard, but = you'll trash the interior paint on the canopy. Not a biggie, I think. = You'll also need to cut a slot in the back rest for the handle and affix = nylon pivot blocks to the inside walls just behind the seat. Plus cut = slots into the rollover structure for the latches and make a hole in the = side of the plane for the handle. Also cut holes in your glareshield = for the hinges. All is doable but I'm not sure I would bother. = Guesses? $1000 for materials and parts and 250 hours labor. Plus = paint. Just a guess. 2) Long engine mount -- This will probably make maintenance a lot = easier. Will also move your CG forward and make it fly better. I think = all you'll need to do is unbolt the mount, make sure the new mount fits = in the old holes, and move the engine and its accessories over. Then = you'll need to extend the cowling to fill the gap. As fiberglass work = goes that's not too bad. You will have to re-do the cowling fasteners, = of course. And you might need longer hoses in a couple of places, but = that's just writing a check. Guesses? $500 for a new mount, $700 for = materials including new cowl fastener parts and new hoses, a weekend for = the changeover and 75 hours labor for extending the canopy and redoing = the cowl fasteners. Plus paint. 3) Landing gear -- I have long considered the Lancair landing gear to = be the weak link in the airplane. Tinkertoy struts supporting go-kart = wheels and bicycle brakes. Okay, so maybe that's a little harsh but if = you compare the Lancair gear to any certified airplane of the same or = similar weight and you see Twiggy supporting the Lancair and (fil in = your favorite female WWE start here) supporting the spam can. (wait, = where was I? I lost my train of thoguth for a moment) Oh, yes, and = it's not just the gear -- the flaps are totally different as well. This = is a huge modification which I would stay away from. But again, I know = nothing about the outback gear. Guesses? Megabucks for the parts and a = year or two for the labor. (Okay, maybe I exaggerate a little.) Hope this helps. - Rob Wolf Tucson AZ ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01CB8241.CD57F590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Danny,
 
I mostly agree with what Rob says about the mods that you asked = about.=20
*Canopy will be exactly has he describes.
*Long engine mount is easy IF (and this is a big IF) you can find a = long=20 engine mount.
*Outback gear? Why? We=E2=80=99ve been flying our 320 off grass, = dirt and all kinds=20 of =E2=80=9Cunimproved=E2=80=9D strips for a lotta years. We=E2=80=99ve = also flown it a lot at rather=20 heavy weights. Never had any problem with the standard gear. What do you = hope to=20 do with the outback gear that you can=E2=80=99t do with the standard? My = advice is to=20 keep the standard gear but install Ong=E2=80=99s deboingers and Grove = wheels and brakes.=20 That=E2=80=99ll give you a pretty robust undercarrage and at around $15 = bucks a piece=20 you can buy a lot of Chin tires for the price of a Goodyear. = (I=E2=80=99ve never had a=20 blowout, a flat or any other problem with the Chins).
 
Bill Harrelson
N5ZQ 320 1,850 hrs
N6ZQ  IV under construction
 
 
 
 
 
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: [LML] Retrofitting a 360
 
Danny -
 
Some thoguhts from a 360 builder (but not yet flying).
 
1)  Canopy -- If you are considering retrofitting a forward = hinged=20 canopy to a finished 360 with a parallelogram canopy, here are some = things to=20 consider.  The forward hinge canopy attaches to brackets which go = into=20 "pockets" in the aft face of the header tank.  If the back face of = the=20 header tank is flat, you will need to "make" pockets by hacking up the = header=20 tank.  That would be a real pain, in my opinion, but anything can = be=20 done.  There are instructions for doing this with the forward hinge = canopy=20 hardware.  My 360 came with parallelogram canopy hardware but a = "pocketed"=20 header tank, and I subsequently purchased the forward hinge = hardware.  So=20 you might luck out there and find a parallelogram canopy installation = onto a=20 pocketed tank.  If the plane does not have a header tank at all = you've got=20 a bigger problem -- no place to attach the brackets for the = hinges. =20 Regardless of header tank configuration, you will have to reinforce the = front of=20 the canopy with 80 feet of unidirectional carbon fiber.  You may = also=20 choose to trim the canopy sides to make them thinner and gain about an = inch of=20 shoulder room.  This particular modification work should not be too = hard,=20 but you'll trash the interior paint on the canopy.  Not a biggie, I = think.  You'll also need to cut a slot in the back rest for the = handle and=20 affix nylon pivot blocks to the inside walls just behind the seat.  = Plus=20 cut slots into the rollover structure for the latches and make a hole in = the=20 side of the plane for the handle.  Also cut holes in your = glareshield for=20 the hinges.  All is doable but I'm not sure I would bother. =20 Guesses?  $1000 for materials and parts and 250 hours labor.  = Plus=20 paint.  Just a guess.
 
2)  Long engine mount -- This will probably make maintenance a = lot=20 easier.  Will also move your CG forward and make it fly = better.  I=20 think all you'll need to do is unbolt the mount, make sure the new mount = fits in=20 the old holes, and move the engine and its accessories over.  Then = you'll=20 need to extend the cowling to fill the gap.  As fiberglass work = goes that's=20 not too bad.  You will have to re-do the cowling fasteners, of=20 course.  And you might need longer hoses in a couple of places, but = that's=20 just writing a check.  Guesses?  $500 for a new mount, $700 = for=20 materials including new cowl fastener parts and new hoses, a weekend for = the=20 changeover and 75 hours labor for extending the canopy and redoing the = cowl=20 fasteners.  Plus paint.
 
3)  Landing gear -- I have long considered the Lancair landing = gear to=20 be the weak link in the airplane.  Tinkertoy struts supporting = go-kart=20 wheels and bicycle brakes.  Okay, so maybe that's a little harsh = but if you=20 compare the Lancair gear to any certified airplane of the same or = similar weight=20 and you see Twiggy supporting the Lancair and (fil in your favorite = female WWE=20 start here) supporting the spam can. (wait, where was I?  I lost my = train=20 of thoguth for a moment)  Oh, yes, and it's not just the gear -- = the flaps=20 are totally different as well.  This is a huge modification which I = would=20 stay away from.  But again, I know nothing about the outback gear.=20 Guesses?  Megabucks for the parts and a year or two for the = labor. =20 (Okay, maybe I exaggerate a little.)
 
Hope this helps.
 
- Rob Wolf
Tucson AZ
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