X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 07:39:37 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-da06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.169.203] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4365766 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:08:38 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.169.203; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o5LN7eG1023741 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:07:40 -0400 Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.ce7.60b7240c (55712) for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:07:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-m20.mail.aol.com (magic-m20.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.193]) by cia-md01.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD013-d9a04c1ff0b359; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:07:31 -0400 From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <83e70.5fd59b94.39514ab3@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:07:31 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Odyssey batteries with very limited warranties X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_83e70.5fd59b94.39514ab3_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 67.175.87.113 X-AOL-IP: 172.20.22.193 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Sky2high@aol.com --part1_83e70.5fd59b94.39514ab3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Chris, et al, =20 I use Battery Tenders (BT) on all SLA batteries if there will be extended= =20 periods of disuse, including the airplane. I have a B&C battery (may be= =20 an Odyssey) from 1998 (before the BC110 reversed the anode/cathode positi= on)=20 that still powers the start motor on a generator. My tractor battery=20 (used for mowing and snow removal) has been maintained for years on a BT= when=20 not in use. My motorcycle sits unused through the winter months - the=20 battery is from 2000) and spends those cold months on a BT - it still wor= ks. I=20 have made use of discarded B&C batteries all over the place - used for=20 raising my airplane on electric jacks, used for winching it in, etc. The= y=20 continue to be usable if maintained with a BT from time to time. I do no= t=20 temp fate - the aircraft battery (B&C) is often replaced every 3 or 4 yea= rs=20 depending on how I have misused it. Pre-flight requires checking both th= e=20 main battery and the EI backup battery for VDC levels and trends. =20 A battery expert (usually an older person) will tell you that this is nuts= =20 - they just haven't experienced a well made SLA battery with pads and =20 their reliability - if kept charged/maintained. Of course, that's just my= =20 observation. =20 Grayhawk =20 =20 In a message dated 6/21/2010 5:39:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, =20 chris_zavatson@yahoo.com writes: =20 Paul, Changing the discharge rate during a capacity check will alter the result= s=20 Going higher in current will yield less capacity while using less curren= t=20 will produce a higher capacity. The battery has internal resistance that= =20 also uses up power (turns into heat) during the discharge test. This los= s=20 is roughly a squared function of the current, therefore changing the=20 discharge current will alter the results. =20 =20 I highly recommend keeping batteries on a maintainer while not in use. = =20 Once I started using these, my batteries (Concorde 25XC) would retain ove= r=20 90% capacity even after five years of use. I can now replace them based= on=20 calendar time instead of performance. =20 =20 Chris Zavatson N91CZ 360std _www.N91CZ.com_ (http://www.n91cz.com/) =20 =20 ____________________________________ From: paul miller To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Mon, June 21, 2010 5:20:51 AM Subject: [LML] Re: Odyssey batteries with very limited warranties To avoid tossing a good battery you can do a test similar to that used on= =20 our Concorde batteries. Take the amp-hour rating (C1) and draw a load= =20 and measure the amps and time down to the threshold of 10v or 20v dependi= ng=20 on the battery. If we can get 80% of the rated A-H capacity we keep it.= =20 But, we use a normal discharge rate in the airplane, not a full draw at= C1=20 as I think that is unnecessary. So, maybe something like 20% of C1=20 discharging through some lights for example or a rate that duplicates a= discharge=20 rate in the airplane in your worst condition so that it will show up any= =20 faults under load. Take a measurement every X minutes and get your capa= city. =20 I'd do it on the bench out of the airplane and track the capacity between= =20 annuals. =20 We previously tossed these expensive batteries based on calendar life but= =20 we can now leave them on condition using these tests. Paul =20 =20 On 2010-06-19, at 3:01 PM, Robert R Pastusek wrote: =20 =20 =20 Robert Simon wrote: =20 =20 Just had two of my four Odyssey PC680 batteries crap out after 2 years of= =20 service although an identical set on the other buss are fine=E2=80=A6 =20 =20 Robert, I have a similar setup in my IV-P and had planned to replace two of the= =20 four batteries every two years, expecting them to last for four years=E2= =80=A6but I=20 never looked at the expected/advertised life; I was just following a=20 practice used for lead/acid batteries. Two of my batteries are coming up= on two=20 years old; the other pair are coming up on four years, and I=E2=80=99d pl= anned to=20 replace them during the condition inspection next month. I=E2=80=99d app= reciate your =20 thoughts/experience on this. Thanks, Bob --part1_83e70.5fd59b94.39514ab3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en <= FONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>
Chris, et al,
 
I use Battery Tenders (BT) on all SLA batteries if there will be= =20 extended periods of disuse, including the  airplane.  I have a= B&C=20 battery (may be an Odyssey) from 1998 (before the BC110 reversed the=20 anode/cathode position) that still powers the start motor on a=20 generator.   My tractor battery (used for mowing and snow remova= l) has=20 been maintained for years on a BT when not in use.  My motorcycl= e sits=20 unused through the winter months - the battery is from 2000) and spends th= ose=20 cold months on a BT - it still works.  I have made use of discar= ded=20 B&C batteries all over the place - used for raising my airplane on ele= ctric=20 jacks, used for winching it in, etc.  They continue to be usable if= =20 maintained with a BT from time to time.  I do not temp fate - the air= craft=20 battery (B&C) is often replaced every 3 or 4 years depending on how I= have=20 misused it.  Pre-flight requires checking both the main battery and= the EI=20 backup battery for VDC levels and trends.
 
A battery expert (usually an older person) will tell you that this is= nuts=20 - they just haven't experienced a well made SLA  battery with pads an= d=20 their reliability - if kept charged/maintained.  Of course, that's ju= st my=20 observation.
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 6/21/2010 5:39:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 chris_zavatson@yahoo.com writes:
www.N91CZ.com   
From: paul miller=20 <paul@tbm700.com>
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Sent:=20 Mon, June 21, 2010 5:20:51 AM
Robert=20 Simon wrote:
 
Ju= st had two of my=20 four Odyssey PC680 batteries crap out after 2 years of service althoug= h an=20 identical set on the other buss are fine=E2=80=A6
 
Robert,
I=20 have a similar setup in my IV-P and had planned to replace two of the= four=20 batteries every two years, expecting them to last for four years=E2=80= =A6but I never=20 looked at the expected/advertised life; I was just following a practic= e used=20 for lead/acid batteries. Two of my batteries are coming up on two year= s old;=20 the other pair are coming up on four years, and I=E2=80=99d planned to= replace them=20 during the condition inspection next month. I=E2=80=99d  apprecia= te your=20 thoughts/experience on this.
Thanks,
Bob


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