X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:39:29 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([209.191.85.74] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with SMTP id 4365577 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:37:20 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.191.85.74; envelope-from=chris_zavatson@yahoo.com Received: (qmail 75193 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Jun 2010 21:36:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=6uqN4MeAJiiD/ng2jirBdP+5KBMYVBumL5nAfhcvwwVgzMelXRrhBoOJvuMExM0hkyGIaXrYebkAshEOA1JQBAS8F348fFW+OUiO0r+/THPKf7eASd6aWIzRgBb+RS06b8wuWawFC4LyT5NGOM6N47iIWxZLbLJ2Xx953TXevLk=; X-Original-Message-ID: <923773.74954.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: fMKw5csVM1lId1h2C8MRFFM2S6XNrDfcER_x6OKqBU08YcW zhTTamYvy_lGbgLsMrwlS6OsQum_Cn49hc0R2dWuYcNSeK_ebaWK7N08uByj BFDRHTaHIdUK1bOlCn0PsYBQ.FHnRikJEN5IBJqsllcrZtT1_eSyOWGMDmH7 ruvpHLfNk.8JTwqPgJZVwub0T2Afe2Og3A.sw49LQnaMC4jSiOnSTO1NmHIx ShNqXsrbtrvHcA51XiF.Kwjzoni0YekfyV3XhtXrgesUj7V1cLi1FBMIH9.H MvhqBQXIP3bZvg2Xo0uw5felUezJoxUSfKXFHo0W6m6H7H.m5j9IRmOVDbMC NC73LOUwfMj8- Received: from [99.149.13.79] by web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 14:36:43 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/397.8 YahooMailWebService/0.8.104.274457 X-Original-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 14:36:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Zavatson Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Odyssey batteries with very limited warranties X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1637191605-1277156203=:74954" --0-1637191605-1277156203=:74954 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul,=0AChanging the discharge rate during a capacity check will alter the = results=C2=A0 Going higher in current will yield less capacity=C2=A0while u= sing less current will produce a higher capacity.=C2=A0 The battery has int= ernal resistance that also uses up power (turns into heat) during the disch= arge test.=C2=A0 This loss is=C2=A0roughly a squared function of the curren= t, therefore changing the discharge current will alter the results.=C2=A0= =C2=A0=0A=0AI highly recommend keeping batteries on a maintainer while not = in use.=C2=A0 Once I started using these, my batteries (Concorde 25XC) woul= d retain over 90% capacity even after=C2=A0five years of use.=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0I can now replace them based on calendar time instead of performance.= =0A=0A=0AChris Zavatson=0AN91CZ=0A360std=0Awww.N91CZ.com=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: paul miller =0ATo: lml@lancaironline.net=0ASent: Mon, June 21, 2010 5:20:51 A= M=0ASubject: [LML] Re: Odyssey batteries with very limited warranties=0A=0A= To avoid tossing a good battery you can do a test similar to that used on o= ur Concorde batteries. =C2=A0 =C2=A0Take the amp-hour rating (C1) and draw = a load and measure the amps and time down to the threshold of 10v or 20v de= pending on the battery. =C2=A0 If we can get 80% of the rated A-H capacity = we keep it. =C2=A0But, we use a normal discharge rate in the airplane, not = a full draw at C1 as I think that is unnecessary. =C2=A0 So, maybe somethin= g like 20% of C1 discharging through some lights for example or a rate that= duplicates a discharge rate in the airplane in your worst condition so tha= t it will show up any faults under load. =C2=A0 Take a measurement every X = minutes and get your capacity. =C2=A0I'd do it on the bench out of the airp= lane and track the capacity between annuals. =0A=0AWe previously tossed the= se expensive batteries based on calendar life but we can now leave them on = condition using these tests.=0A=0APaul=0AOn 2010-06-19, at 3:01 PM, Robert = R Pastusek wrote:=0A=0ARobert Simon wrote:=0A>=0A>Just had two of my four O= dyssey PC680 batteries crap out after 2 years of service although an identi= cal set on the other buss are fine=E2=80=A6=0A>=0A>=0A>Robert,=0A>I have a = similar setup in my IV-P and had planned to replace two of the four batteri= es every two years, expecting them to last for four years=E2=80=A6but I nev= er looked at the expected/advertised life; I was just following a practice = used for lead/acid batteries. Two of my batteries are coming up on two year= s old; the other pair are coming up on four years, and I=E2=80=99d planned = to replace them during the condition inspection next month. I=E2=80=99d=C2= =A0 appreciate your thoughts/experience on this.=0A>Thanks,=0A>Bob=0A=0A=0A= =0A --0-1637191605-1277156203=:74954 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Paul,
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Changing the discharge rate during a capacity = check will alter the results  Going higher in current will yield less = capacity while using less current will produce a higher capacity. = ; The battery has internal resistance that also uses up power (turns into h= eat) during the discharge test.  This loss is roughly a squared f= unction of the current, therefore changing the discharge current will alter= the results.  
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I highly recomme= nd keeping batteries on a maintainer while not in use.  Once I started= using these, my batteries (Concorde 25XC) would retain over 90% capacity e= ven after five years of use.   I can now replace them b= ased on calendar time instead of performance.
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=0A<= DIV> 
=0A
Chris Zavatson
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N91CZ
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360s= td
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www.N91CZ.com &n= bsp; 
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=0A
=0AFrom: paul mill= er <paul@tbm700.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent:<= /SPAN> Mon, June 21, 2010 5:20:51 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: Odyssey batteries with very limited war= ranties

To avoid tossing a good battery you can do a test sim= ilar to that used on our Concorde batteries.    Take the amp-hour= rating (C1) and draw a load and measure the amps and time down to the thre= shold of 10v or 20v depending on the battery.   If we can get 80% of t= he rated A-H capacity we keep it.  But, we use a normal discharge rate= in the airplane, not a full draw at C1 as I think that is unnecessary. &nb= sp; So, maybe something like 20% of C1 discharging through some lights for = example or a rate that duplicates a discharge rate in the airplane in your = worst condition so that it will show up any faults under load.   Take a mea= surement every X minutes and get your capacity.  I'd do it on the benc= h out of the airplane and track the capacity between annuals. =0A

<= /DIV>=0A
We previously tossed these expensive batteries based on calend= ar life but we can now leave them on condition using these tests.
=0A<= DIV>
=0A
Paul
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On 2010-06-19, at 3= :01 PM, Robert R Pastusek wrote:

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=0A<= DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: serif">Robert Simon wrote:
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=0A<= DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: serif">Just had two of= my four Odyssey PC680 batteries crap out after 2 years of service although= an identical set on the other buss are fine=E2=80=A6
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Robert,
I have a similar setup in my IV-P and had planned t= o replace two of the four batteries every two years, expecting them to last= for four years=E2=80=A6but I never looked at the expected/advertised life;= I was just following a practice used for lead/acid batteries. Two of my ba= tteries are coming up on two years old; the other pair are coming up on fou= r years, and I=E2=80=99d planned to replace them during the condition inspe= ction next month. I=E2=80=99d  appreciate your thoughts/experience on = this.
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Thanks,
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Bob


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