X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 15:01:32 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([71.74.56.125] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4363284 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 19 Jun 2010 11:50:19 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=71.74.56.125; envelope-from=sdfields@austin.rr.com X-Original-Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=GMC9ctHN+mfn2UjahXKMz1Fs9q6RIMVHs8P/za7PD7k= c=1 sm=0 a=uSFpHTXhXTYA:10 a=0qYQvVkOOIcA:10 a=i19MFbyK5lgPmZ8mDfEwKg==:17 a=XMy9Kcj8AAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=tPNGXkedmvK447CRKqMA:9 a=ohd4m3XrfGBCl95z4gUA:7 a=XP3o88Jphlhy_5zsud4cgdi9S9MA:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=CVU0O5Kb7MsA:10 a=QJIP64lGCh4A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=iIqXcuv6GmwKGTwh:21 a=2iu20ROMiewfQEw8:21 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=lWiM8wkdiJ4JsMxKDWkA:9 a=iTxeKSGpgd0fv7sqwawA:7 a=HVUwrAPiR-TyRFjohPmSf9A4nMkA:4 a=BU_sttSCO8lAPaYX:21 a=wCo6MjPFFBXt1cmA:21 a=i19MFbyK5lgPmZ8mDfEwKg==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 72.177.6.53 Received: from [72.177.6.53] ([72.177.6.53:4317] helo=D6F15391) by hrndva-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 84/47-22132-617EC1C4; Sat, 19 Jun 2010 15:49:43 +0000 From: "Stan Fields" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Legacy Glass Panel Suggestions? X-Original-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:51:43 -0500 X-Original-Message-ID: <003801cb0fc7$50ebcb90$f2c362b0$@rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01CB0F9D.6815C390" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcsPIOLhaX/GNLuGQS2inOnPSPZX2QAphY5Q Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01CB0F9D.6815C390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Jeff, I will look at Bent's posts in the archives. Glad you're here! Stan Fields www.lancairlegacybuilder.com From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of vtailjeff@aol.com Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 3:00 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Glass Panel Suggestions? Stan, Were it not for the mechanical backup guages I installed in my IVP we would not be having this conversation. If you are only concerned about lightning you are only looking at a small portion of the hazard. Brent Regan has posted extensively on this subject-- his remarks are worth their weight in gold. Jeff It would be interesting to know how many pilots flying dual EFIS panels with backup gauges were forced to rely on the gauges at some point. -----Original Message----- From: Stan Fields To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Thu, Jun 17, 2010 5:07 am Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Glass Panel Suggestions? Hello Tom, I was afraid someone would say that. Obviously looking at all the panels in our fleet, most have steam gauges as primary or backup. While I don't intend to joust with Thor, it may be unavoidable some day. It may not be possible to isolate all of the electronics from a lightning event but I'd hoped the state of the art had advanced enough to make that risk acceptably small. It would be interesting to know how many pilots flying dual EFIS panels with backup gauges were forced to rely on the gauges at some point. Building electronic redundancy gobbles up panel space but perhaps with a little shuffling I can fit in a 3 pack - even with a small Legacy panel. Stan -----Original Message----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net ] On Behalf Of Tom Thibault Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:58 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Glass Panel Suggestions? Stan, You wrote "I am an electrical engineer and worked for 8 years at Cessna as an instrumentation engineer". You also said "I want to eliminate "steam gages" but want equivalent electronic redundancy." Please elaborate on your reasoning for elimination of steam gauges. It seems that current generation GA certified airplanes still include steam backup. For example, the Corvalis TT and Mooney Ovation web sites still shows airspeed, attitude, altitude steam gauges right beside the G1000 equipped panels. Are you planning VFR only, for example? For me, who went through the same decision process for an IFR solution in a 360 model, the answer came out retain the steam. The considerations also included a history of prior p-static upsets of electronics in the cockpit when flying IFR through rain. Of course, 360s are mostly E-glass, so static wicks to drain the build up do not work, where they should on your Legacy. Regardless, I believe in relying on multiple types of physics for flight instruments. Pretty sure it was Brent Reagan who recommended that first here in the mail list. In the event of p-static or lighting events, ALL the electronics could be taken out, no matter how isolated, redundant, or battery backed up they may be. In that event, at least basic aircraft control info would still be available and a hand held comm/nav (not connected to any systems on the ship) could then be used to communicate and navigate out of the current instrument conditions. Hopefully a reasoned, non-emotional, discussion will ensue. Tom Thibault -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01CB0F9D.6815C390 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Jeff, I will look at Bent’s posts in the = archives. Glad you’re here!

 

Stan Fields

www.lancairlegacybuilder.com=

 

 

From:= Lancair = Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = vtailjeff@aol.com
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 3:00 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Glass Panel = Suggestions?

 

Stan,

 

Were it not for the mechanical backup guages I installed in = my IVP we would not be having this conversation. If you are only concerned = about lightning you are only looking at a small portion of the hazard. Brent = Regan has posted extensively on this subject-- his remarks are worth their = weight in gold.

 

Jeff

It would be =

interesting to know how many pilots flying dual =
EFIS panels with backup gauges =

were forced to rely on the gauges at some point. =

 

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Stan Fields <sdfields@austin.rr.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Thu, Jun 17, 2010 5:07 am
Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Glass Panel Suggestions?

Hello =
Tom,
 
I was afraid =
someone would say that. Obviously looking at all the panels in our =

fleet, most =
have steam gauges as primary or backup. While I don't intend to =

joust with =
Thor, it may be unavoidable some day. It may not be possible to =

isolate all =
of the electronics from a lightning event but I'd hoped the state of =

the art had =
advanced enough to make that risk acceptably small. It would be =

interesting =
to know how many pilots flying dual EFIS panels with backup gauges =

were forced =
to rely on the gauges at some point. 
 
Building =
electronic redundancy gobbles up panel space but perhaps with a little =

shuffling I =
can fit in a 3 pack - even with a small Legacy panel. =

 
Stan
 
 
-----Original =
Message-----
From: Lancair =
Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] =
On Behalf Of Tom 
Thibault
Sent: =
Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:58 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: =
[LML] Re: Legacy Glass Panel =
Suggestions?
 
Stan,
 
You wrote =
"I am an electrical engineer and worked for 8 years at Cessna as an =

instrumentation engineer".  You also =
said "I want to eliminate "steam gages" but =

want =
equivalent electronic redundancy."
 
Please =
elaborate on your reasoning for elimination of steam gauges.  It =
seems 
that current =
generation GA certified airplanes still include steam backup.  For =

example, the =
Corvalis TT and Mooney Ovation web sites still shows airspeed, =

attitude, =
altitude steam gauges right beside the G1000 equipped =
panels.
 
Are you =
planning VFR only, for example?
 
For me, who =
went through the same decision process for an IFR solution in a 360 =

model, the =
answer came out retain the steam.  The considerations also included =
a 
history of =
prior p-static upsets of electronics in the cockpit when flying IFR =

through =
rain.  Of course, 360s are mostly E-glass, so static wicks to drain =
the 
build up do =
not work, where they should on your Legacy.  Regardless, I believe =

in relying on =
multiple types of physics for flight instruments.  Pretty sure it =

was Brent =
Reagan who recommended that first here in the mail =
list.
 
In the event =
of p-static or lighting events, ALL the electronics could be taken =

out, no =
matter how isolated, redundant, or battery backed up they may be.  =
In 
that event, =
at least basic aircraft control info would still be available and a =

hand held =
comm/nav (not connected to any systems on the ship) could then be used =

to =
communicate and navigate out of the current instrument =
conditions.
 
Hopefully a =
reasoned, non-emotional, discussion will =
ensue.
 
Tom =
Thibault
 
--
For archives =
and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
 
 
--
For archives =
and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
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