X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 15:28:37 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from col0-omc3-s8.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.146] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4172737 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 11:42:24 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.34.146; envelope-from=ptjetpilot@hotmail.com Received: from COL118-W46 ([65.55.34.137]) by col0-omc3-s8.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 20 Mar 2010 08:41:46 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: ptjetpilot@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_3804a34c-1992-438e-b778-e725da3a2b54_" X-Originating-IP: [71.70.224.255] From: jeffrey rienzi X-Original-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: More on Ed Smith's accident X-Original-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 11:41:46 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2010 15:41:46.0822 (UTC) FILETIME=[D9574660:01CAC843] --_3804a34c-1992-438e-b778-e725da3a2b54_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please read the reply again. No "Assertion" to being a HERO was made. (plea= se read previous sentence) It stated "IF" meaning IF no one had died=2C peo= ples opinion of the ACCIDENT would not be so Critical. The point of the sta= tement was " Don't Judge " and was not intended to be a reply to your "Spec= ific Statement". It was my Mistake to tag on my comment to your Post=2C whi= ch Came after reading so much negitive B/S on the internet=2C My Apology. (= someday I'll learn how to Post Correctly) But=2C in Reply to your Statemen= t about the pilot doing an excellent job being BASELESS. In my "Opinion" Th= e Pilot=2C Landed an Disabled Aircraft Blindly. The Aircraft was in ONE Pie= ce=2C Both Passengers walked away without injury. I call that an Excellent = Job Flying=2C Would you not agree? The Fact that Mr. Jones Did Die is TRULY= a Tragedy. I'm not discounting that fact in any way. My statement was "IF"= NO ONE HAD DIE in the Accident. What better outcome could there have been.= Both passanger walking away from that Situation Without Injury=2C There w= as my Basis for the pilot doing an Excellent Job Flying=2C Preforming an EM= ERGENCY LANDING. =20 To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat=2C 20 Mar 2010 09:21:34 -0400 From: gt_phantom@hotmail.com Subject: [LML] Re: More on Ed Smith's accident The following is my response to someone who contacted me directly after the= y not only did not read what I actually wrote=2C but accused me of criticiz= ing the pilot's performance. Name censored - this is not about embarrassin= g someone=2C and perhaps his point is that I was sufficiently unclear in my= original post that others may also have misinterpreted it. Or perhaps he = just had a bad day a the office... =3B-)=20 __________________________________________________ Dear xxxx=2C You are exactly correct - opinions are one per person. That is why I was v= ery careful to specify that MY opinion was that of a rear view mirror=2C ar= mchair quarterback=2C given the choice (not assumed=2C as you falsely indic= ate) point of view and only to be taken as a lesson learned for the rest of= us - so that if WE ever end up in a similar position we might possibly do = better. I did not criticize the pilot nor his choices=2C that is your inte= rpretation. Having suffered the loss of many friends to aviation accidents= =2C and even a few where they suffer the guilt of a wrong (or even right) d= ecision having unintentionally cost the life of another=2C my advice for th= e COMMUNITY was both sound and practical. =20 ericsongwl@hotmail.com. Do you know if he ever practiced engine out proced= ures? Do you know if he ever considered what to do in the event of an oil = leak destroying his visibility (a relatively common emergency with C/S prop= s)? Do you understand that it is just as dangerous to glorify any aviator = who befalls tragedy as it is to vilify them=2C when doing so hurts the cred= ibility of our community? At the end of the day perhaps he IS a hero - but= to ASSUME that he is is just as irrational and unproductive as what the de= spicable author of that "news/slander" article wrote. I have personally lost 1/2 of a propeller over the ocean in a Lancair=2C so= the scenario is not totally unfamiliar to me. While I did not suffer his = visibility problems (it was a wooden prop)=2C I did consider it as a possib= ility - all I "knew" was that there was a horrible vibration and that I mig= ht have blown a rod and could quickly blow a seal=2C or even lose the engin= e off of the aircraft (a good friend once threw a C/S blade on takeoff in a= Lancair and broke 3 of 4 motor mounts. He DID lose visibility=2C and very= nearly his life...). I reacted quickly and correctly=2C I am convinced=2C= because I had prepared for such an event and practiced for it. I also hav= e the benefit of several million dollars worth of taxpayer funded training = behind me and had the subsequent mind set that such benefit often results i= n pounded into me - but there is ample evidence that that attitude is somet= hing that any pilot can choose to adopt. Sadly=2C some do not. The fact of the matter is=2C if the aircraft was flyable then given even a = few seconds before impact he could have side-slipped enough to determine wh= ether he would land in the shallow water rather than on the beach. While h= e may not have been able to make out a person through the oil=2C there is a= good possibility that he may have seen a boat - or that hitting a boat mig= ht not have resulted in anyone's death. Given the time of year=2C it seems= very unlikely that the water would contain swimmers. Perhaps=2C as you su= ggest=2C he did not have that much time=2C or perhaps he just panicked=2C e= tc.=2C speculation=2C etc. None of that is to be criticized=3B the first b= eing uncontrollable and the latter being mere human frailty which is just a= s utterly unavoidable as whether you were born a man or a woman. =20 However=2C based on reports I've read over the years both in and out of the= military=2C statistically speaking he was probably worried more about savi= ng his beautiful airplane than he was about the consequences of his decisio= ns. The decision to sacrifice the airplane to save your life=2C and potent= ially the lives of others=2C is counter intuitive to a normal human - espec= ially one who has spent thousands of loving hours creating that aircraft. = That decision needs to be made on the ground before you fly=2C and that dec= ision requires preparation and discipline. That is the lesson to be learne= d from this=2C and if even one person learns it then the aviation community= will have benefited from this tragedy. Fly safe all=2C Bill _____________________________________________ OPINIONS are Like . Does anyone Know the Facts! Does any= one Know What the Situation in the Cockpit was at the Time of Landing=2C NO= . Does anyone Know if there was a CHOICE on exactly where or How to Land=2C= NO. Does anyone Know How Rough the Surf was at the Time of Landing=2C NO. = Does anyone Know How a Lancair IV handles without a Prop=2C NO. All the Cri= tics=2C All the Judges. How do you Know if he had Landed in the Water Blind= ly he wouldn't have hit a Boat or someone on a Jetski=2C Does Anyone Know i= f there where Boats in the Water at the time of Landing=2C NO!! It was an "= UNFORTUNATE ACCIDENT". I would Think One of our OWN would get more Support = from LML. My Sincere Heart Felt Prayers go out to the Family=2C Wife and Ch= ildren of Mr. Jones. Also=2C to ED Smith. If no One Had Died in the Landing= =2C Ed Smith would have been a Hero=2C Right. Think about it. I think Ed di= d an EXCELLENT JOB Piloting an Aircraft DEAD STICK BLIND. Date: Fri=2C 19 Mar 2010 07:23:18 -0400 Why was she quoted? For the same reason Michael Moore gets even a moment's= notice in the press. People love emotional stupidity - it sells papers. As for his decision to land on the beach - in a strictly rear-view mirror /= armchair quarterback manner=2C I'll go out on a limb and suggest that a le= sson learned here is that if you can't see what is straight ahead you shoul= d choose to land in the shallow water=2C given the choice. Yes=2C it may b= e cold and damage the leather - but so is waking up in the morning knowing = you killed someone. Our prayers go out to both the family of the deceased and the pilot for wha= t they have=2C and will=2C endure. Bill jeffrey rienzi wrote:=20 Schiavo=2C the former NTSB official. Absolutely Ignorant !!!! Makes the NTS= B look Bad. Why was a FORMER NTSB official even quoted?? =20 To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed=2C 17 Mar 2010 22:04:45 -0400 From: 2thman@cablespeed.com Subject: [LML] More on Ed Smith's accident Who on earth is this person Schiavo? Was she misquoted? It=92s become nor= mal to expect comments like the turbine engine and 387 mph errors made in t= he reports=2C but the quote below is really ridiculous coming from anyone w= ho knows anything at all about flying an aircraft with an engine out=2C eve= n a slow one but especially for any Lancair. =93Even with oil smeared on the windshield=2C Schiavo=2C the former NTSB o= fficial=2C said Smith should have been able to see through a small window o= n the side of the plane and possibly yell out to anyone below. Still=2C the= re may have been little time to try to avoid hitting the jogger=2C she said= . She said Smith made the right choice in landing on the beach rather than th= e water. The aircraft likely wasn't carrying flotation equipment. "Planes like this sink like a rock=2C" she said.=94 This quote from an article on AP. =20 =20 Regards=2C =20 John Barrett=2C CEO Leading Edge Composites PO Box 428 Port Hadlock=2C WA 98339 =20 www.carbinge.com =20 Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb= ox. Learn More. Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your = inbox. Sign up now. -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html= =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox= . http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID27925::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3= --_3804a34c-1992-438e-b778-e725da3a2b54_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please =3Bread the reply again. No "Assertion" to being a HERO was made= . (please read previous sentence) It stated "IF" meaning =3BIF no one h= ad died=2C =3Bpeoples opinion of the ACCIDENT would not be so Critical.= The point of the statement was " Don't Judge " =3Band was not intended= to be a reply to your "Specific Statement". It was my Mistake to tag on my= comment to your Post=2C which Came after reading so much negitive B/S on t= he internet=2C =3BMy Apology. ( someday I'll learn how to Post Correctl= y) But=2C in Reply to your Statement about =3Bthe pilot doing an excell= ent job being BASELESS. In my =3B"Opinion" The Pilot=2C Landed an Disab= led Aircraft Blindly. The Aircraft was in ONE Piece=2C Both Passengers walk= ed away without injury. I call that an =3BExcellent Job Flying=2C Would= you not agree? The Fact that Mr. Jones Did Die is =3BTRULY a Tragedy. = I'm not discounting that fact in any way. My statement was "IF" =3BNO O= NE HAD DIE in the Accident. What better outcome could there have been. = =3B Both passanger walking away from that Situation =3BWithout Injury= =2C There was my Basis for the pilot doing an Excellent Job =3BFlying= =2C Preforming an EMERGENCY LANDING.  =3B
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Sat=2C 20 Mar 2010 09:21:34 -0400
Fro= m: gt_phantom@hotmail.com
Subject: [LML] Re: More on Ed Smith's accident=

The following is my response to someone who contacted me directly a= fter they not only did not read what I actually wrote=2C but accused me of = criticizing the pilot's performance. =3B Name censored - this is not ab= out embarrassing someone=2C and perhaps his point is that I was sufficientl= y unclear in my original post that others may also have misinterpreted it.&= nbsp=3B Or perhaps he just had a bad day a the office... =3B =3B-)
________________________= __________________________

Dear xxxx=2C

You are exactly corre= ct - opinions are one per person. =3B That is why I was very careful to= specify that MY opinion was that of a rear view mirror=2C armchair quarter= back=2C given the choice (not assumed=2C as you falsely indicate) po= int of view and only to be taken as a lesson learned for the rest of us - s= o that if WE ever end up in a similar position we might possibly do better.=  =3B I did not criticize the pilot nor his choices=2C that is your inte= rpretation. =3B Having suffered the loss of many friends to aviation ac= cidents=2C and even a few where they suffer the guilt of a wrong (or even r= ight) decision having unintentionally cost the life of another=2C my advice= for the COMMUNITY was both sound and practical. =3B

ericsongwl= @hotmail.com. =3B Do you know if he ever practiced engine out procedure= s? =3B Do you know if he ever considered what to do in the event of an = oil leak destroying his visibility (a relatively common emergency with C/S = props)? =3B Do you understand that it is just as dangerous to glorify a= ny aviator who befalls tragedy as it is to vilify them=2C when doing so hur= ts the credibility of our community? =3B At the end of the day perhaps = he IS a hero - but to ASSUME that he is is just as irrational and unproduct= ive as what the despicable author of that "news/slander" article wrote.
=
I have personally lost 1/2 of a propeller over the ocean in a Lancair= =2C so the scenario is not totally unfamiliar to me. =3B While I did no= t suffer his visibility problems (it was a wooden prop)=2C I did consider i= t as a possibility - all I "knew" was that there was a horrible vibration a= nd that I might have blown a rod and could quickly blow a seal=2C or even l= ose the engine off of the aircraft (a good friend once threw a C/S blade on= takeoff in a Lancair and broke 3 of 4 motor mounts. =3B He DID lose vi= sibility=2C and very nearly his life...). =3B I reacted quickly and cor= rectly=2C I am convinced=2C because I had prepared for such an event and pr= acticed for it. =3B I also have the benefit of several million dollars = worth of taxpayer funded training behind me and had the subsequent mind set= that such benefit often results in pounded into me - but there is ample ev= idence that that attitude is something that any pilot can choose to adopt.&= nbsp=3B Sadly=2C some do not.

The fact of the matter is=2C if the ai= rcraft was flyable then given even a few seconds before impact he could hav= e side-slipped enough to determine whether he would land in the shallow wat= er rather than on the beach. =3B While he may not have been able to mak= e out a person through the oil=2C there is a good possibility that he may h= ave seen a boat - or that hitting a boat might not have resulted in anyone'= s death. =3B Given the time of year=2C it seems very unlikely that the = water would contain swimmers. =3B Perhaps=2C as you suggest=2C he did n= ot have that much time=2C or perhaps he just panicked=2C etc.=2C speculatio= n=2C etc. =3B None of that is to be criticized=3B the first being uncon= trollable and the latter being mere human frailty which is just as utterly = unavoidable as whether you were born a man or a woman. =3B

Howe= ver=2C based on reports I've read over the years both in and out of the mil= itary=2C statistically speaking he was probably worried more about saving h= is beautiful airplane than he was about the consequences of his decisions.&= nbsp=3B The decision to sacrifice the airplane to save your life=2C and = potentially the lives of others=2C is counter intuitive to a normal human <= /B>- especially one who has spent thousands of loving hours creating that a= ircraft. =3B That decision needs to be made on the ground before you fl= y=2C and that decision requires preparation and discipline. =3B That is= the lesson to be learned from this=2C and if even one person learns it the= n the aviation community will have benefited from this tragedy.


= Fly safe all=2C

Bill

________________________________________= _____

<=3Banonymity of this person preserved=2C since they did not= wish the community to see their response>=3B


OPINIONS are =3BLike <=3Bprofanity removed>=3B. Does anyone Know th= e Facts! Does anyone Know What the Situation in the Cockpit was at the Time= of Landing=2C NO. Does anyone Know if there was a =3BCHOICE on exactly= where =3Bor How to Land=2C NO. =3BDoes anyone Know How Rough the S= urf was at the Time of Landing=2C NO. Does anyone Know How a Lancair IV han= dles without a Prop=2C NO. =3BAll the Critics=2C All the Judges. How do= you Know if he had Landed in the Water Blindly he wouldn't have hit a Boat= or someone on a Jetski=2C =3BDoes Anyone Know if there where Boats in = the Water at the time of Landing=2C NO!! It was an =3B"UNFORTUNATE = =3BACCIDENT". =3BI would Think =3BOne of our =3BOWN would get m= ore Support from LML. My Sincere Heart =3BFelt Prayers go out to the Fa= mily=2C Wife and Children of Mr. Jones. Also=2C to ED Smith. If no One Had = Died in the Landing=2C Ed Smith would have been a Hero=2C Right. =3BThi= nk about it. I think Ed did an EXCELLENT JOB Piloting an Aircraft DEAD STIC= K BLIND.
Date: Fri=2C 19 Mar 2010 07:23:18 -0400

Why was she quoted? =3B = For the same reason Michael Moore gets even a moment's notice in the press.=  =3B People love emotional stupidity - it sells papers.

As for h= is decision to land on the beach - in a strictly rear-view mirror / armchai= r quarterback manner=2C I'll go out on a limb and suggest that a lesson lea= rned here is that if you can't see what is straight ahead you should choose= to land in the shallow water=2C given the choice. =3B Yes=2C it may be= cold and damage the leather - but so is waking up in the morning knowing y= ou killed someone.

Our prayers go out to both the family of the dece= ased and the pilot for what they have=2C and will=2C endure.

Bill

jeffrey rienzi wrote:=20
Schiavo=2C the former NTSB official. Absolutely Ignorant !!!! =3BMakes = the NTSB look Bad. Why was a FORMER NTSB official even quoted??
 =3B=
To: lml@lancaironline.net
= Date: Wed=2C 17 Mar 2010 22:04:45 -0400
From: 2thman@cablespeed.com
Subject: [LML] More on Ed Smit= h's accident

Who on earth is this person Schiavo? =3B = Was she misquoted? =3B It=92s become normal to expect comments like the= turbine engine and 387 mph errors made in the reports=2C but the quote bel= ow is really ridiculous coming from anyone who knows anything at all about = flying an aircraft with an engine out=2C even a =3B slow one but especi= ally for any Lancair.

 =3B

=93Even with oil smeared on the w= indshield=2C Schiavo=2C the former NTSB official=2C said Smith should have = been able to see through a small window on the side of the plane and possib= ly yell out to anyone below. Still=2C there may have been little time to tr= y to avoid hitting the jogger=2C she said.
She said Smith made the right= choice in landing on the beach rather than the water. The aircraft likely = wasn't carrying flotation equipment.
"Planes like this sink like a rock= =2C" she said.=94
This quote from an article on AP.

 =3B

 =3B

Regards=2C

 =3B

John Barrett=2C CEO

Leading Edge Composites

PO Box 428

Port Hadlock=2C WA 98339

 =3B

www= .carbinge.com

 =3B


Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb= ox. Learn More.

Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your = inbox. Sign up now.
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For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html=

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C c= hat and e-mail from your inbox. Get started. = --_3804a34c-1992-438e-b778-e725da3a2b54_--