X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:41:20 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mta21.charter.net ([216.33.127.81] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.2) with ESMTP id 4104137 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 29 Jan 2010 17:57:41 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.33.127.81; envelope-from=troneill@charter.net Received: from imp11 ([10.20.200.11]) by mta21.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.02.04 201-2219-117-106-20090629) with ESMTP id <20100129225706.ERFT21519.mta21.charter.net@imp11> for ; Fri, 29 Jan 2010 17:57:06 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([75.132.241.174]) by imp11 with smtp.charter.net id bax61d0023mUFT705ax6RK; Fri, 29 Jan 2010 17:57:06 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jT5r6d-15aAA:10 a=UnycWH4_rUBAATwYY8kA:9 a=uD5IiYL02aS6mp3s4oH_KC9ha9kA:4 a=Ydqe9HH_Qvgx5PXfzAIA:9 a=jeEeGWey2qqwLuYmWPoA:7 a=P5Ruya6axHUo9VG92ICpI9Ke5JgA:4 From: Terrence O'Neill Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-28-883300876 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Airspeed sensing switch /Auto gear extension / Engine out gear ... X-Original-Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:57:05 -0600 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: <5BEA0778-D201-49E2-A832-1D9D2067B5E5@charter.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) --Apple-Mail-28-883300876 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Grayhawk, You said: > Which wing configuration? This is a question I always have with our = very special wing. The standard airfoil is without the flaps being in = reflex. The hi-speed cruise is with the flap in reflex (less lift, less = drag, nose up pitch). I don't consider the flaps to be in an extended = state until they pass through 0 degrees (out of reflex). The drag, lift = and pitch conditions are definitely different in these two = configurations. Also, it seems that the lift characteristics don't = change much after extension beyond about 7 degrees down after zero = (total movement =3D 14 degrees down from reflex) but the drag increases = and the pitch moment is also greatly affected. > =20 Yes. The Cl/AOA curve I have for the NLF-0215 considers the zero = deflection (not the reflexed) as basic, and that's the curve I referred = to. But its just the wIng, wtihout fuselage, AR, or flap deflection = (part span) considered. The actual wing... is what counts... knowing = that lift does not increase in direct proportion to increasing the AOA. SO, I just mark the measured best L/D AOA and the stall AOA for the = critical (landing) condition. > I like steeper speedier approaches because of big reduction in energy = during the high-drag round out, thus a shorter float and roll-out. You = are absolutely right about choosing the correct AGL so the descent is = arrested and it is different under different conditions. For me, by the = time I have reached the pattern, the flaps are in takeoff position and = that give me a very stable 120 KIAS without the nose being too high. = The gear drop occurs at a point in the pattern (at an altitude higher = than those 172's) where I have to start the descent and the runway is = assured even though the speed now drops 15 knots. > =20 Yes, I remember you demonstrating that for me. That's about the way we = were taught in SNJs, and I like to try to do it that way. Terrence O'Neill Lancair 235/320 ...=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-28-883300876 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Grayhawk,

You said:

Which wing configuration? This is a question I always have with our very special wing. The standard airfoil is without the flaps being in reflex. The hi-speed cruise is with the flap in reflex (less lift, less drag, nose up pitch). I don't consider the flaps to be in an extended state until they pass through 0 degrees (out of reflex). The drag, lift and pitch conditions are definitely different in these two configurations. Also, it seems that the lift characteristics don't change much after extension beyond about 7 degrees down after zero (total movement = 14 degrees down from reflex) but the drag increases and the pitch moment is also greatly affected.

Yes. The Cl/AOA curve I have for the NLF-0215 considers the zero deflection (not the reflexed) as basic, and that's the curve I referred to. But its just the wIng, wtihout fuselage, AR, or flap deflection (part span) considered. The actual wing... is what counts... knowing that lift does not increase in direct proportion to increasing the AOA.

SO, I just mark the measured best L/D AOA and the stall AOA for the critical (landing) condition.

I like steeper speedier approaches because of big reduction in energy during the high-drag round out, thus a shorter float and roll-out. You are absolutely right about choosing the correct AGL so the descent is arrested and it is different under different conditions. For me, by the time I have reached the pattern, the flaps are in takeoff position and that give me a very stable 120 KIAS without the nose being too high. The gear drop occurs at a point in the pattern (at an altitude higher than those 172's) where I have to start the descent and the runway is assured even though the speed now drops 15 knots.

Yes, I remember you demonstrating that for me. That's about the way we were taught in SNJs, and I like to try to do it that way.

Terrence O'Neill

Lancair 235/320 ...

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