X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 18:07:52 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from snt0-omc3-s15.snt0.hotmail.com ([65.55.90.154] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.1) with ESMTP id 4093650 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:32:36 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.90.154; envelope-from=gary21sn@hotmail.com Received: from SNT112-DS12 ([65.55.90.136]) by snt0-omc3-s15.snt0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 23 Jan 2010 18:32:01 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [68.186.114.52] X-Originating-Email: [gary21sn@hotmail.com] X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: gary21sn@hotmail.com From: "Gary Edwards" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Airspeed sensing switch /Auto gear extension / Engine out gear down Issue! X-Original-Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 18:31:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1DFA_01CA9C5A.58BAFE80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V10.00.0070.1500 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 18:31:56 -0800 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2010 02:32:01.0142 (UTC) FILETIME=[688E1160:01CA9C9D] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1DFA_01CA9C5A.58BAFE80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That is good info for everyone. =20 However, in my 235, 120 MPH is the best glide speed. That equates to = 104 knots. I do not want to be going any faster in event of an off = field landing, and most likely, I will leave the gear up in that = situation. On a runway, I would use the gear, but unless it is a long = runway, I will also keep the speed not in excess. Any speed above about = 80 MPH results is a bounced landing and significant nose high attitude = with the chance of dragging the rudder, and wasted runway behind me. Also, a thought in reference to when to drop the gear. 7 to 10 seconds = is fine if the plane still has electrical. But if the dump valve has to = be used, that will not be enough time to get the gear down, especially = if the pilot has to crab the plane one or two directions to lock each or = both mains in place. The pilot is going to be a "busy beaver" in the = last 30 seconds of flight. Gary Edwards LNC2 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: randy snarr=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:20 PM Subject: [LML] Airspeed sensing switch /Auto gear extension / Engine = out gear down Issue! Terrence, Mine is the same as yours only no auto gear down. Only a warning = light and horn for low speed and gear up. I would seriously consider changing your set up for the = following reason. This is a bit of a long winded response but it brings = up a vitally important point for the group. Gear and flaps down too early with a dead engine will have = disasterous consequences every time. With loss of power, gear and flaps should stay up keeping speed = above 120 kts IAS until the last seconds before landing. My gear down is = a count to 7. Everyone should know how many seconds it takes to get it = down and locked as you will only have one shot to get it right in an = emergency. You wont' be able to do that with your gear set up. Many Lancair drivers (myself included until recently) have no = idea that these how bad these airplanes glide dragging the gear with a = windmilling propeller. That is a deadly mistake. Dragging gear and flaps, you need a = steep nose down attitude to keep the airspeed at a safe speed. = Unfortunately, in that regime you can not flair the airplane. When you = try to flair without a little power these airplanes just slow down and = hit the ground. The situation is much worse if you are heavy.=20 This is very important for every Lancair driver to understand, With a dead engine if the gear and flaps are down too early = (anything sooner than 10 seconds before ground contact) the incident = will most likely have a tragic outcome. This is absolutely true. I don't mean to preach but I believe we would still have some = good friends with us if we all understood this better. We recently had a = fatal crash at my field where an experienced instructor died in a 210 in = a similar circumstance which got me thinking about this.=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The ONLY way to get down safely on your wheels in our airplanes = is to keep and extra 15 or 20 KTS of energy (over a typical approach) = all the way to ground effect and then drop the gear and flaps and bleed = off speed and touch down. That extra energy is used quickly extending = the wheels and you will need to be touching down when it is gone or you = are toast.=20 This applies to me as much as anyone else.. Randy Snarr N694RS --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Terrence O'Neill = wrote: From: Terrence O'Neill Subject: [LML] Re: Airspeed sensing switch needed To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Friday, January 22, 2010, 3:08 PM Thanks for the info, Randy.=20 I have my airspeed sensing switch set a 90 knots, in the = gear-up circuit, so that no matter where the gear switch is, it can't = raise the gear unless the airspeed is greater than 90 knots. Same on landing. I fi forget to put the gear switch to down, = the gear will come down anyway at 90 knots. The only downside (no pun intended) is that should I want to = make a gear-su forced landing, I couldn't... and have considered adding = a bypass into the circuit. Any thoughts on that/ Terrence=20 L235/320 N211AL =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_1DFA_01CA9C5A.58BAFE80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That is good info for everyone.  
 
However, in my 235, 120 MPH is the = best glide=20 speed.  That equates to 104 knots.  I do not want to be going = any=20 faster in event of an off field landing, and most likely, I will = leave the=20 gear up in that situation.  On a runway, I would use the gear, but = unless=20 it is a long runway, I will also keep the speed not in excess.  Any = speed=20 above about 80 MPH results is a bounced landing and = significant nose=20 high attitude with the chance of dragging the rudder, and wasted runway = behind=20 me.
 
Also, a thought in reference to when to drop the gear.  7 to = 10=20 seconds is fine if the plane still has electrical.  But if the dump = valve=20 has to be used, that will not be enough time to get the gear down, = especially if=20 the pilot has to crab the plane one or two directions to lock each or = both mains=20 in place.  The pilot is going to be a "busy beaver" in the last 30 = seconds=20 of flight.
 
Gary Edwards
LNC2
----- Original Message -----
From: randy=20 snarr
Sent: Saturday, January 23, = 2010 12:20=20 PM
Subject: [LML] Airspeed sensing = switch=20 /Auto gear extension / Engine out gear down Issue!

Terrence,
Mine is the same as yours only no = auto gear=20 down. Only a warning light and horn for low speed and gear = up.

I=20 would seriously consider changing your set up for the following = reason.=20 This is a bit of a long winded response but it brings up a = vitally=20 important point for the group.

 Gear and flaps down = too=20 early with a dead engine will have disasterous consequences = every=20 time.

With loss of power, gear and flaps should stay up = keeping=20 speed above 120 kts IAS until the last seconds before landing. = My gear=20 down is a count to 7. Everyone should know how many seconds it = takes to=20 get it down and locked as you will only have one shot to get it = right in=20 an emergency. You wont' be able to do that with your gear set=20 up.

Many Lancair drivers (myself included until recently) = have no=20 idea that these how bad these airplanes glide dragging the gear = with a=20 windmilling propeller.

That is a deadly mistake. Dragging = gear=20 and flaps, you need a steep nose down attitude to keep the = airspeed at a=20 safe speed. Unfortunately, in that regime you can not flair the=20 airplane. When you try to flair without a little power these = airplanes=20 just slow down and hit the ground. The situation is much worse = if you=20 are heavy.

This is very important for every Lancair = driver to=20 understand,

With a dead = engine if=20 the gear and flaps are down too early (anything sooner than 10 = seconds=20 before ground contact) the incident will most likely have a = tragic=20 outcome. This is absolutely true.

I don't mean to = preach=20 but I believe we would still have some good friends with us if = we all=20 understood this better. We recently had a fatal crash at my = field where=20 an experienced instructor died in a 210 in a similar = circumstance which=20 got me thinking about this.
The ONLY way to get down safely on your wheels in our airplanes = is to=20 keep and extra 15 or 20 KTS of energy (over a typical approach) = all the=20 way to ground effect and then drop the gear and flaps and bleed = off=20 speed and touch down. That extra energy is used quickly = extending the=20 wheels and you will need to be touching down when it is gone or = you are=20 toast.
This applies to me as much as anyone = else..

Randy=20 Snarr
N694RS

--- On Fri, 1/22/10, Terrence O'Neill=20 <troneill@charter.net> wrote:

From:=20 Terrence O'Neill <troneill@charter.net>
Subject: = [LML] Re:=20 Airspeed sensing switch needed
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Date:=20 Friday, January 22, 2010, 3:08 PM

Thanks for the info, Randy.=20
I have my airspeed sensing switch set a 90 knots, in the = gear-up=20 circuit, so that no matter where the gear switch is, it can't = raise=20 the gear unless the airspeed is greater than 90 knots.
Same on landing.  I fi forget to put the gear switch = to=20 down, the gear will come down anyway at 90 knots.
The only downside (no pun intended) is that should I want = to make=20 a gear-su forced landing, I couldn't... and have considered = adding a=20 bypass into the circuit.
Any thoughts on that/
Terrence 
L235/320 N211AL




 


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