X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:14:59 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.1) with ESMTP id 4081118 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:47:26 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.41; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o0DEka4P027629 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:46:36 -0500 Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id q.c37.65668d30 (43952) for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:46:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-dd02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-dd02.mx.aol.com [205.188.84.130]) by cia-dd01.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADD011-d4044b4ddcb91ca; Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:46:27 -0500 Received: from magic-m10.mail.aol.com (magic-m10.mail.aol.com [172.20.29.6]) by smtprly-dd02.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDD028-d4044b4ddcb91ca; Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:46:17 -0500 From: sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <4b71.3114ca13.387f36b9@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:46:17 EST Subject: Re: [LML] In Flight Engine Fire Extinguishers X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_4b71.3114ca13.387f36b9_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 67.175.242.202 X-AOL-IP: 172.20.29.6 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Sky2high@aol.com --part1_4b71.3114ca13.387f36b9_boundary Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="part1_4b71.3114ca13.387f36b9_rel_boundary" --part1_4b71.3114ca13.387f36b9_rel_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="4b71.3114ca13_alt_bound" --4b71.3114ca13_alt_bound Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Valin, =20 Most engine compartment fires are from an oil or fuel leak. If the engin= e=20 continues to run, ignition sources from heat (i.e. exhaust pipes) still= =20 exist. Air is plentiful and flammable material may still be available -= fuel=20 can be shut off, oil cannot. So, even though you have a fire suppression= =20 system, the engine must be stopped and fuel to the engine compartment mus= t=20 be shut off before the fire can be extinguished. =20 =20 Halon deprives a fire of O2 but a Legacy descending at a high rate of =20 speed will flush out the Halon as soon as it is released. Perhaps too muc= h air=20 will upset the A/F ratio and kill the fire. Remember that ground bound= =20 applications generally assume that the vehicle will quickly come to a sto= p=20 thus increasing the effectiveness of a Halon type suppression system. =20 Hmmmmm, no fuel shutoff in a car except for killing power to the fuel pum= p. =20 The system would work perfectly for a fire whilst taxiing. =20 Scott Krueger =20 PS The standard 300 series fuel shutoff is at the aft bottom of the header= =20 tank. For me, operating solo, that would require loosening the shoulder= =20 straps, leaning forward and way over to the right to reach the shut off= -=20 thus losing all flight visual reference. The following aerobatic maneuv= er=20 could be interesting while I must quickly sit up, recover and re-tighten= the=20 belts - hoping that the fire will blow itself out. Ahh, fire is bad. =20 =20 In a message dated 1/13/2010 7:20:14 A.M. Central Standard Time, =20 thorn@starflight.aero writes: =20 Hey LML gang,=20 As part of our risk management strategy, we want to install an engine fir= e=20 extinguishing system in our Legacy under construction. We=E2=80=99ve zer= oed in on=20 this Halon 1301 based system from Safecraft. See screen shot from=20 Aircraft Spruce=E2=80=99s website: =20 We=E2=80=99d appreciate comments and advice from the community regarding= choice of=20 systems and installation recommendations. Some specific questions are:= =20 =C2=B7 Would a single 5 lb bottle provide enough Halon concentra= tion=20 to extinguish an in-flight fire?=20 =C2=B7 Do we need to route discharge lines to the cowling inlets= to=20 ensure we=E2=80=99re getting the Halon throughout the compartment when di= scharged for=20 a fire?=20 =C2=B7 Has anyone had an engine fire that was successfully=20 extinguished in flight?=20 =C2=B7 We=E2=80=99re trying to eliminate mechanical connections= to the=20 instrument panel to make it easy to remove for maintenance (eg. No push= pull=20 cables, etc.). Anyone have experience with setting up for electrically= =20 actuating a system?=20 =C2=B7 Etc. Thanks,=20 Valin Thorn=20 Legacy=20 Houston, Texas=20 Starflight, Inc.=20 1702 Emerald Lake Ct,=20 Houston, TX 77062 281.486.4663=20 _http://www.starflight.aero/legacy_ (http://www.starflight.aero/legacy) = =20 =20 --4b71.3114ca13_alt_bound Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en <= FONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>
Valin,
 
Most engine compartment fires are from an oil or fuel leak.  If= the=20 engine continues to run, ignition sources from heat (i.e. exhaust pip= es)=20 still exist.  Air is plentiful and flammable material may still be=20 available - fuel can be shut off, oil cannot.  So, even though you ha= ve a=20 fire suppression system, the engine must be stopped and fuel to the= engine=20 compartment must be shut off before the fire can be extinguished. 
 
Halon deprives a fire of O2 but a Legacy descending at a high ra= te of=20 speed will flush out the Halon as soon as it is released.  Perhaps to= o much=20 air will upset the A/F ratio and kill the fire.  Remember that g= round=20 bound applications generally assume that the vehicle= will=20 quickly come to a stop thus increasing the effectiveness of a Halon= =20 type suppression system.  Hmmmmm, no fuel shutoff in a car excep= t for=20 killing power to the fuel pump.
 
The system would work perfectly for a fire whilst taxiing.
 
Scott Krueger
 
PS The standard 300 series fuel shutoff is at the aft bottom of the= header=20 tank.  For me, operating solo, that would require loosening= the=20 shoulder straps, leaning forward and way over to the right to reach= the=20 shut off - thus losing all flight visual reference.   The follow= ing=20 aerobatic maneuver could be interesting while I must quickly sit up,=20 recover and re-tighten the belts - hoping that the fire will blow its= elf=20 out.  Ahh, fire is bad.
 
In a message dated 1/13/2010 7:20:14 A.M. Central Standard Time,=20 thorn@starflight.aero writes:

Hey LML=20 gang,

 

As part of=20 our risk management strategy, we want to install an engine fire extingui= shing=20 system in our Legacy under construction.  We=E2=80=99ve zeroed in= on this Halon=20 1301 based system from Safecraft.  See screen shot from Aircraft Sp= ruce=E2=80=99s=20 website:

 

=

 

We=E2=80=99d=20 appreciate comments and advice from the community regarding choice of sy= stems=20 and installation recommendations.  Some specific questions=20 are:

 

=C2= =B7    = ;    =20 Would a=20 single 5 lb bottle provide enough Halon concentration to extinguish an= =20 in-flight fire?

=C2= =B7    = ;    =20 Do we need=20 to route discharge lines to the cowling inlets to ensure we=E2=80=99re= getting the=20 Halon throughout the compartment when discharged for a=20 fire?

=C2= =B7    = ;    =20 Has anyone=20 had an engine fire that was successfully extinguished in=20 flight?

=C2= =B7    = ;    =20 We=E2=80=99re=20 trying to eliminate mechanical connections to the instrument panel to ma= ke it=20 easy to remove for maintenance (eg. No push pull cables, etc.).  An= yone=20 have experience with setting up for electrically actuating a=20 system?

=C2= =B7    = ;    =20 Etc.

Thanks,

 

Valin=20 Thorn

 

Legacy

Houston,=20 Texas

 

 

 

Sta= rflight,=20 Inc.

170= 2 Emerald=20 Lake Ct,

Hou= ston, TX=20 77062

281.486.4663

http://www.starflight.= aero/legacy

3D"Starflight

 

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