X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:17:25 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from blu0-omc3-s2.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.77] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.0) with ESMTP id 4071255 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 11:31:13 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.116.77; envelope-from=randystuart@hotmail.com Received: from BLU0-SMTP36 ([65.55.116.74]) by blu0-omc3-s2.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 10 Jan 2010 08:30:37 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [99.163.234.153] X-Originating-Email: [randystuart@hotmail.com] X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: randystuart@hotmail.com Received: from laptop ([99.163.234.153]) by BLU0-SMTP36.blu0.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 10 Jan 2010 08:30:35 -0800 From: "Randy" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair Accidents factoids X-Original-Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 08:30:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002F_01CA91CF.3185CAB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2010 16:30:36.0097 (UTC) FILETIME=[3CD26B10:01CA9212] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01CA91CF.3185CAB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I believe LNC-2's alone have hit the 2000 mark.=20 Please post all the statistics..=20 Locations, Annual Hours, Models of Lancair's, Actual Accidents / = Incidents for all Lancair's, LOBO and Non LOBO, Etc.=20 ---- Original Message -----=20 From: vtailjeff@aol.com=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:19 AM Subject: [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair Accidents factoids over 2000 kits sold; approx 1000 flying; 200 members (20% of the = flying fleet) -----Original Message----- From: Jim Nordin To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Fri, Jan 8, 2010 6:27 pm Subject: [LML] 2009 Lancair Accidents factoids So a reasonable question is: What percentage of Lancairs are LOBO = affiliated? Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = freyas.favored@gmail.com Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 2:43 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair Accidents factoids Or could it be that more people who fly aren't members of LOBO so the = odds are with you. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: vtailjeff@aol.com=20 Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:09:12 -0500 To: Subject: [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair Accidents factoids Matt,=20 The important part is NO LOBO accidents in 2009. Pretty significant = when not a single LOBO member joins the NTSB club in 2009 -- a better = question would be why are LOBO members "safer" than the general Lancair = community? You probably only have to look at the recent LML discussions = to answer that question for yourself.=20 Best Regards, Jeff Edwards -----Original Message----- From: Matt Reeves To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Wed, Jan 6, 2010 3:15 pm Subject: [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair Accidents factoids Not to be negative but how many Lancairs flew in 2009 compared = to 2008? Or any airplane for that matter? Just a few years ago, I'd = see and hear planes fly all the time. Now, I'm lucky to hear one a = month and never see them. Sadly, GA is dying. In Rochester, it's $80 = to land a small plane - $40 ramp fee plus $40 landing fee. Less planes = fly, less planes crash but I'm not sure that should be interpreted as an = improvement. --- On Wed, 1/6/10, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote: From: vtailjeff@aol.com Subject: [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair Accidents factoids To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:16 AM Interesting fact: 9 serious (four fatal with 7 fatalities) = Lancair accidents last year. This is down from 20 accidents (12 fatal = with 21 fatalities) in 2008. Not a single serious accident in 2009 = involved a LOBO member. This parallels COPA's membership accident = statistics as well. Keep it up! Jeff Edwards President, LOBO -----Original Message----- From: Robert Mitchell To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:19 pm Subject: [LML] Re: Fuel Planning Some random experiences in Fuel (mis)management. Gotcha #1. Left Madison, Wisc, minetes ahead of a rapid moving = cold front in a C-180 ambhibian. Full tanks, checked cover on old style = fuel tank - appeared on (the wing is 12+ feet in the air) so didn't = crawel the ladder! On way to Midway airport, swithched tanks over what = is now Tri-State expressway. Tank # 2 empty because cap loose under the = old style cover. Landed without incident on the Tri-state (prior to = concrete being laid.) Gotcha #2. In a T-6. Three hours Fuel in two tanks, switching = tanks every 1/2 hour. Made fuel selector swith twice without problem, = on third switch attempt the selector handle broke off. Now unable to = fly on fuller tank, so diverted to alternate airport and landed. No = passenger in back seat as there is a second selector there. Henceforth = carried a vicegrip as do about 1/3 of the knowledgeable T-6 pilots. Gotcha #3. In a twin comanche with tip tanks. Heated hangar in = N. Wisc. Drained during preflight a small amount of fuel from the twins = peculiar low point central drain. Left for Florida, with full mains, = full aux and full tips. My proceedure is to taxi out on the mains, = switch to aux for run up then back to mains for take off. Uneventfull = cruise at 8500'. Full aux and tips showing on the gauges. At cruise I = swith to left Aux tank, engine quites, back to main everything ok. Same = with rt engine. Analysis frozen water in both aux tanks. After landing = and over night in heated hanger drain over a gallon of water from sump. = A/c always hangared! Gotcha#4. I was checking out a CFI in a tailwheel Aeronca Champ, = 85hp it had a fuel system not unlike a Lnc-2. Header tank, 2 wing tanks = that gravity feed to the header. The CFI "student" checks the fuel. " = half full header, half full wing aux tanks". We were only going to do = touch and goes in Sedona, AZ. After 2-3 landings we turned on the aux = which drains into the mains so as to continue circuits and the 4th = landing was "dead stick".=20 Moral of the story(s), is that; when possible I fly on the top = half of the tanks and enjoy the luxury of capacitance gauges, fuel = flow/totalizers and hopefully no more GOTCHA'S.=20 Bob Mitchell L320 Subject: [LML] Re: Fuel Planning I rely heavily on the fuel totalizer in the Velocity. On = refueling, it is invariably accurate to within a gallon on a 30-70 = gallon burn, but there is one scenario where reliance on the totalizer = can leave you in the lurch, and a bad one at that. If a leak develops = upstream of the fuel totalizer sensor, or you leave a fuel cap off, you = can be draining or vacuuming a large fraction of your fuel overboard, = but the fuel totalizer does not recognize this loss, nor will you, if = you rely only on the totalizer. =20 Accordingly, we need a means of sensing, or directing reading = of, the fuel left in the tank(s) to know that we haven't had an = unexpected loss and that we can rely on the fuel totalizer. Chuck Jensen=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01CA91CF.3185CAB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I believe LNC-2's = alone have=20 hit the 2000 mark.
Please post all = the=20 statistics..
Locations, Annual = Hours,=20 Models of Lancair's, Actual Accidents / Incidents for all Lancair's, = LOBO and=20 Non LOBO, Etc.
 
 
 
 
 
 
---- Original Message -----
From:=20 vtailjeff@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 = 3:19=20 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair = Accidents=20 factoids

over 2000 kits sold; approx 1000 = flying;=20 200 members (20% of the flying fleet)



-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Jim Nordin <panelmaker@earthlink.net>=
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: = Fri,=20 Jan 8, 2010 6:27 pm
Subject: [LML] 2009 Lancair Accidents = factoids

So a = reasonable question=20 is: What percentage of Lancairs are LOBO=20 affiliated?
Jim
 
From: Lancair=20 Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of freyas.favored@gmail.com
= Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 = 2:43=20 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair = Accidents=20 factoids
 
Or could it be that more people who fly = aren't members=20 of LOBO so the odds are with you.
Sent=20 from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: = vtailjeff@aol.com
Date: = Fri, 08 Jan=20 2010 14:09:12 -0500
To: = <lml@lancaironline.net>
=
Subject: = [LML]=20 Re: 2009 Lancair Accidents factoids
 
Matt,=20
 
The = important part=20 is NO LOBO accidents in 2009. Pretty significant when not a = single LOBO=20 member joins the NTSB club in 2009 -- a better question would be why = are LOBO=20 members "safer" than the general Lancair community? You probably only = have to=20 look at the recent LML discussions to answer that question for = yourself.=20
 
Best=20 Regards,
 
Jeff=20 Edwards
 
-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Matt Reeves <mattreeves@yahoo.com>
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: = Wed,=20 Jan 6, 2010 3:15 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair Accidents=20 factoids
Not to be negative but how many = Lancairs flew in=20 2009 compared to 2008?  Or any airplane for that = matter?  Just=20 a few years ago, I'd see and hear planes fly all the time.  = Now,=20 I'm lucky to hear one a month and never see them.  Sadly, = GA is=20 dying.  In Rochester, it's $80 to land a small plane - $40 = ramp fee=20 plus $40 landing fee.   Less planes fly, less planes crash = but I'm=20 not sure that should be interpreted as an = improvement.

--- On=20 Wed, 1/6/10, vtailjeff@aol.com <vtailjeff@aol.com>=20 wrote:

From: vtailjeff@aol.com <vtailjeff@aol.com>
Subject:=20 [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair Accidents factoids
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: = Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:16 AM

Interesting=20 fact: 9 serious (four fatal with 7 fatalities) Lancair accidents = last=20 year. This is down from 20 accidents (12 fatal with 21 = fatalities)=20 in 2008. Not a single serious accident in 2009 involved a LOBO = member.=20 This parallels COPA's membership accident statistics as well. = Keep it=20 up!
 
Jeff = Edwards
President,=20 LOBO
 
-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Robert Mitchell <rmitch1@hughes.net>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: = Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:19 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: Fuel=20 Planning
Some=20 random experiences in Fuel (mis)management.
 
Gotcha=20 #1.  Left Madison, Wisc, minetes ahead of a rapid moving = cold front=20 in a C-180 ambhibian.  Full tanks, checked cover on old = style fuel=20 tank - appeared on (the wing is 12+ feet in the air) so didn't = crawel=20 the ladder!  On way to Midway airport, swithched tanks over = what is=20 now Tri-State expressway.  Tank # 2 empty because cap loose = under=20 the old style cover.  Landed without incident on the = Tri-state=20 (prior to concrete being laid.)
 
Gotcha=20 #2.  In a T-6.  Three hours Fuel in two tanks, = switching tanks=20 every 1/2 hour.  Made fuel selector swith twice without = problem, on=20 third switch attempt the selector handle broke off.  Now = unable to=20 fly on fuller tank, so diverted to alternate airport and = landed. =20 No passenger in back seat as there is a second selector = there. =20 Henceforth carried a vicegrip as do about 1/3 of the = knowledgeable T-6=20 pilots.
 
Gotcha=20 #3.  In a twin comanche with tip tanks.  Heated hangar = in N.=20 Wisc.  Drained during preflight a small amount of fuel from = the=20 twins peculiar low point central drain.  Left for Florida, = with=20 full mains, full aux and full tips. My proceedure is to = taxi out on=20 the mains, switch to aux for run up then back to mains for take=20 off.  Uneventfull cruise at 8500'.  Full aux and tips = showing=20 on the gauges. At cruise I swith to left Aux tank, engine = quites, back=20 to main everything ok.  Same with rt engine.  Analysis = frozen=20 water in both aux tanks.  After landing and over night in = heated=20 hanger drain over a gallon of water from sump.  A/c always=20 hangared!
 
Gotcha#4. I=20 was checking out a CFI in a tailwheel Aeronca Champ, 85hp it had = a fuel=20 system not unlike a Lnc-2. Header tank, 2 wing tanks that = gravity feed=20 to the header.  The CFI "student" checks the fuel.  " = half=20 full header, half full wing aux tanks".  We were only going = to do=20 touch and goes in Sedona, AZ.  After 2-3 landings we = turned on=20 the aux which drains into the mains so as to = continue circuits and=20 the 4th landing was "dead stick". 
 
Moral of=20 the story(s), is that; when possible I fly on the top half of = the tanks=20 and enjoy the luxury of capacitance gauges, fuel flow/totalizers = and=20 hopefully no more GOTCHA'S.
 
Bob=20 Mitchell
L320
 
 

Subject: [LML] Re: Fuel=20 Planning
I rely=20 heavily on the fuel totalizer in the Velocity.  On = refueling, it is=20 invariably accurate to within a gallon on a 30-70 gallon burn, = but=20 there is one scenario where reliance on the totalizer can = leave you=20 in the lurch, and a bad one at that.  If a leak develops = upstream=20 of the fuel totalizer sensor, or you leave a fuel cap off, you = can be=20 draining or vacuuming a large fraction of your fuel overboard, = but the=20 fuel totalizer does not recognize this loss, nor will you, if = you rely=20 only on the totalizer. 
 
Accordingly,=20 we need a means of sensing, or directing reading of, the fuel = left in=20 the tank(s) to know that we haven't had an unexpected loss and = that we=20 can rely on the fuel totalizer.

Chuck=20 Jensen =
 
=
 
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