X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 09:49:20 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c4) with ESMTP id 4041724 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:23:04 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.42; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-ma04.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id nBQDMKGX000741 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:22:20 -0500 Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id q.c31.6d818e77 (34906) for ; Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:22:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-me01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-me01.mx.aol.com [64.12.95.102]) by cia-da02.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA023-b2b34b360e03207; Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:22:18 -0500 Received: from magic-d03.mail.aol.com (magic-d03.mail.aol.com [172.19.161.131]) by smtprly-me01.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYME015-b2b34b360e03207; Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:22:11 -0500 From: sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:22:11 EST Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Fuel Planning X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_e59.7da1eb6.38676803_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 67.175.242.202 X-AOL-IP: 172.19.161.131 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Sky2high@aol.com --part1_e59.7da1eb6.38676803_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GT, You must not have seen my Lancair 320 since I do know the amount of fuel I have at any given time and the amount is within 1-2 gallons (the tank displays do not show fractions of gallons). It was an important capability for me and I had no problem in installing and using a system that went beyond FAA certification rules that only require the gauges be accurate when they show empty. On behalf of those 300 series pilots that perform aerobatics, going out to compete or practice with only a full header is prudent as fuel in the wings may upset the balance of some maneuvers. Grayhawk In a message dated 12/26/2009 7:01:45 A.M. Central Standard Time, gt_phantom@hotmail.com writes: Full tanks on a 320/360 is < 250 lbs, or a heavy passenger. When you calculate the theoretical savings you MIGHT obtain not filling the tanks vs. the empirical evidence of greater safety from ALWAYS filling the tanks, I'll have to say I'm quite willing to shell out a few extra dollars on the side of safety. Too, in every Lancair I've seen there is only one KNOWN quantity of gas for each tank - FULL. Every other condition is "unknown." However, that still does allow having at least one tank FULL and the wings "not full" and still know you have enough gas for a local flight. I have taken off once with only a full header tank - that was to go get cheaper gas at another airport. But don't let my caution stop you from taking of with an unknown quantity of gas. Merry Christmas, all! :-) _mjrav@comcast.net_ (mailto:mjrav@comcast.net) wrote: Lancairians, I can't help but comment also. Those who routinely top up the tanks on local flights may have a misguided sense of being conservative. Our high performance aircraft are that way due to a combination of aerodynamics, power and weight. Carrying around a whole lot of excess fuel compromises that performance. There may be hundreds of possible scenarios where having less weight would improve safety. I'm sure we can all think of some. The aircraft handling, responsiveness and corresponding joy of flying is also improved with reduced gross weight. I'm very comfortable with an hour or so reserve. I can get to maybe 100 other airports within a 200 mile radius. Mark Ravinski 360 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Casey" __ (mailto:casey.gary@yahoo.com) To: _lml@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:lml@lancaironline.net) Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 8:52:52 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [LML] Re: Fuel Planning Thanks, Rob, for posting the results. The ones that said "top it" didn't abide by the spirit of the question :-) in that I don't know how many minutes of fuel that equates to, but there were enough replies in minutes. The technician in me couldn't resist doing some math: The average planned fuel remaining was 63 minutes, or about 30 minutes in each tank. I guess that would work, but for me that would be about 7 gallons in each tank, at my low fuel warning setting. I know I would get an additional verbal warning from my usual right seat crewmember :-(. The standard deviation of the answers was 33 minutes, a fairly large variation considering the average was 63 minutes. A significant number of people would have in the vicinity of 30 minutes remaining. In fact, 4 out of 12 would have 30 minutes or less. One planned the flight with only 20 minutes remaining. Of course, if I knew the minutes remaining of the ones that said "top it" the results would shift dramatically. Gary Fuel Planning December 23, 2009 11:19:15 AM MST From: "Rob Logan" __ (mailto:Rob@Logan.com) To: "" __ (mailto:lml@lancair.net) Thanks to those that responded to the fuel question. This is how it was worded: There is 30min of fuel in your plane. You wanta meet your friends for lunch on this stunning VFR day. You don't have any planned flights for the next few weeks. The lunch stop's gas is the same price as as at your home field. The lunch stop's runway is 5,000 at sea level. The flight time to lunch is 30mins How many mins of fuel do you add to your tanks for the flight? Here is the summery in the form of: in the plane + personal min + trip + extra 30 + top 30 + top 30 + top 30 + top 30 + top 30 + top 30 + top 30 + top 30 + top 30 + top 30 + 30 + top 30 + 15 + full wings, not aux 30 + 30 + 60 + 60 30 + 120 30 + 120 30 + 120 30 + 120 30 + 30 + 30 + 30 30 + 30 + 60 30 + 30 + 30 + 15 30 + 15 + 30 + 15 30 + 15 + 30 + 5 30 + 0 + 60 30 + 60 common notes: 1) always top 2) add enough to get to lunch and home plus personal reserve 3) fill to a level one can directly observe fuel in tank. Rob -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --part1_e59.7da1eb6.38676803_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
GT,
 
You must not have seen my Lancair 320 since I do know the amount= of=20 fuel I have at any given time and the amount is within 1-2 gallons (t= he=20 tank displays do not show fractions of gallons).  It was an=20 important capability for me and I had no problem in installing= and=20 using a system that went beyond FAA certification rules that only=20 require the gauges be accurate when they show empty. 
 
On behalf of those 300 series pilots that perform aerobatics, go= ing=20 out to compete or practice with only a full header is prudent as fuel in= the=20 wings may upset the balance of some maneuvers.
 
Grayhawk
 
 
In a message dated 12/26/2009 7:01:45 A.M. Central Standard Time,=20 gt_phantom@hotmail.com writes:
Full=20 tanks on a 320/360 is < 250 lbs, or a heavy passenger.

When yo= u=20 calculate the theoretical savings you MIGHT obtain not filling the tanks= vs.=20 the empirical evidence of greater safety from ALWAYS filling the tanks,= I'll=20 have to say I'm quite willing to shell out a few extra dollars on the si= de of=20 safety.  Too, in every Lancair I've seen there is only one KNOWN qu= antity=20 of gas for each tank - FULL.  Every other condition is "unknown."&n= bsp;=20 However, that still does allow having at least one tank FULL and the win= gs=20 "not full" and still know you have enough gas for a local flight. = I have=20 taken off once with only a full header tank - that was to go get cheaper= gas=20 at another airport.

But don't let my caution stop you from taking= of=20 with an unknown quantity of gas.

Merry Christmas, all!

:-)

mjrav@comcast.net wrote:=20

Lancairians,

I can't help but comment also.

Those who routinely top up the tanks on local flights may have= a=20 misguided sense of being conservative.

Our high performance aircraft are that way due to a combination of= =20 aerodynamics, power and weight.

Carrying around a whole lot of excess fuel compromises that=20 performance.

There may be hundreds of possible scenarios where having less weigh= t=20 would improve safety.  I'm sure we can all think of some.

The aircraft handling, responsiveness and corresponding joy of= =20 flying is also improved with reduced gross weight.

I'm very comfortable with an hour or so reserve.  I can= get to=20 maybe 100 other airports within a 200 mile radius.

 

Mark Ravinski

360  

 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Casey" <casey.gary@yahoo.com>
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.netSent:=20 Thursday, December 24, 2009 8:52:52 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada=20 Eastern
Subject: [LML] Re: Fuel Planning

Thanks, Rob, for po= sting=20 the results.  The ones that said "top it" didn't abide by the spi= rit of=20 the question :-) in that I don't know how many minutes of fuel that eq= uates=20 to, but there were enough replies in minutes.  The technician in= me=20 couldn't resist doing some math:
The average planned fuel remaining= was=20 63 minutes, or about 30 minutes in each tank.  I guess that would= work,=20 but for me that would be about 7 gallons in each tank, at my low fuel= =20 warning setting.  I know I would get an additional verbal warning= from=20 my usual right seat crewmember :-(.
The standard deviation of the= answers=20 was 33 minutes, a fairly large variation considering the average was= 63=20 minutes.  A significant number of people would have in the vicini= ty of=20 30 minutes remaining.  In fact, 4 out of 12 would have 30 minutes= or=20 less.  One planned the flight with only 20 minutes remaining.
= Of=20 course, if I knew the minutes remaining of the ones that said "top it"= the=20 results would shift dramatically.
Gary


Fuel=20 Planning
December 23, 2009 11:19:15 AM MST
From:
"Rob Logan"= <Rob@Logan.com>
To:
"" <lml@lancair.net>
Thanks to tho= se=20 that responded to the fuel question. This is how it=20 was
worded:

There is 30min of fuel in your plane.
You wan= ta=20 meet your friends for lunch on this stunning VFR day.
You don't hav= e any=20 planned flights for the next few weeks.
The lunch stop's gas is the= same=20 price as as at your home field.
The lunch stop's runway is 5,000 at= sea=20 level.
The flight time to lunch is 30mins

How many mins of= fuel do=20 you add to your tanks for the flight?

Here is the summery in th= e form=20 of:
in the plane + personal min + trip + extra

30 + top
3= 0 +=20 top
30 + top
30 + top
30 + top
30 + top
30 + top
30= +=20 top
30 + top
30 + top
30 + 30 + top
30 + 15 + full wings,= not=20 aux

30 + 30 + 60 + 60
30 + 120
30 + 120
30 + 120
30= +=20 120
30 + 30 + 30 + 30
30 + 30 + 60
30 + 30 + 30 + 15
30 += 15 +=20 30 + 15
30 + 15 + 30 + 5
30 + 0  + 60
30 + 60

com= mon=20 notes:

1) always top
2) add enough to get to lunch and home= plus=20 personal reserve
3) fill to a level one can directly observe fuel= in=20 tank.

               &n= bsp;=20        Rob



    =20  

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