X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 09:41:20 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from web57506.mail.re1.yahoo.com ([66.196.100.73] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c4) with SMTP id 4040812 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 25 Dec 2009 07:30:56 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.196.100.73; envelope-from=casey.gary@yahoo.com Received: (qmail 30386 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Dec 2009 12:30:19 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=WjhkyQVyfNtAfYywgJfceIH9Y0WvzsOPpraJvxmfRuk9S2T2c06UvlHD+938jDfnNgX65fv2pE65rNLbeKqyQ0yVyJhhaSGTdJFbClcrfocZ8mpf9+SN3xz1yKez1FzypficL3vdTND/QNRfd4VMjnqNI1ByucW8ZAkOOHir1Vk=; X-Original-Message-ID: <527294.29607.qm@web57506.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: WHPDFOoVM1l6GikeyGgobsImod7jTzcP9C1kxUBOdLOZZTF7ZQCtlklJtPdDgQiSbGMr9AJOTIupHTrN0a4AHBir3BPu7h49yy2owYnAUXX443gPL7FppjEzyC72liRfGSmqRYoXHXHppQGPdW2cvrcIy9vnsufc_zZso1NWGeGClcCnSsxPeK5uMRWACGyQedI3MwD2.ivWlZyGaLtIN8WVpWpUEUSIiaNKJLnNkWi5zcQoYrEwtZN1NjmBboB2NuUJRVyZ0O0yldKqurhGbw7rpvVONjHK.Y0b1sdIRDQMblfRld5bxgWROvQ- Received: from [97.122.191.52] by web57506.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 25 Dec 2009 04:30:19 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/240.3 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 References: X-Original-Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 04:30:19 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Casey Subject: Re: Fuel Planning X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1643265519-1261744219=:29607" --0-1643265519-1261744219=:29607 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was gratified to see that Rob's survey got some interesting comments going. I didn't remotely mean to imply that topping it was a poor or even inappropriate thing to do, just that without it being expressed in minutes of fuel the math didn't work out. I suspect that if it were, there would have been a lot of "240 minutes" entries and that would have skewed the results to a much higher value, but with a higher standard deviation. Regardless, there were replies that suggested that more fuel isn't always better, and I'm sure it depends partly on how much fuel capacity is available. Those with extra tankage might not top it and still have more than someone with standard tanks. Another suggested it depends on the accuracy of one's knowledge of the remaining fuel (like with a header tank). In my case, I fly out of a 7,000 ft elevation airport that is 3800 feet long. To me the takeoff is the most critical phase of flight and I very seldom take off with full tanks; only when the temperature and the wind allow and adequate margin. I think the replies suggest that there isn't an absolute best answer - maximizing safety is a tradeoff between a number of conflicting factors. It might be a good idea not to put oneself at either end of the distribution curve. Merry Christmas everyone! Gary Re: [LML] Re: Fuel Planning December 24, 2009 8:37:46 AM MST From: "Burr Bryan" To: "" Aside from weight and balance implications "top it" is always the safest in my book. A wise old aviator once told me the following: " The sky above you, the runway behind you, and the air in your fuel tanks do you no good". In other words: fly high, rotate as early as safely possible, and carry gas. Bryan N132BB On Dec 24, 2009, at 6:52 AM, Gary Casey wrote: Thanks, Rob, for posting the results. The ones that said "top it" didn't abide by the spirit of the question :-) in that I don't know how many minutes of fuel that equates to, but there were enough replies in minutes. ________________________________ From: Lancair Mailing List Sent: Fri, December 25, 2009 4:00:03 AM Subject: lml Digest #2896 Note: Forwarded message is attached. Lancair Mailing List Digest #2896 1) Re: Fuel Planning by Gary Casey 2) N193CG Takeoff by marv@lancair.net 3) Re: Fuel Planning by Burr Bryan 4) Re: Evolution by Lancair number four takes to the air... by vtailjeff@aol.com 5) Re: Fuel Planning by vtailjeff@aol.com 6) Re: Fuel Planning by mjrav@comcast.net 7) Re: Fuel Planning by "Douglas Brunner" 8) Re: Fuel Planning by Chris Zavatson 9) [lml]'Twas the night before Christmas by "N320G" 10) Re: Fuel Planning by sky2high@aol.com 11) Re: Fuel Planning by "Dominic V. Crain" 12) Merry Christmas by "Dominic V. Crain" 13) Re: [lml]'Twas the night before Christmas by Kailani 14) Re: Fuel Planning by "farnsworth" 15) Re: [lml]'Twas the night before Christmas by Alain NOIREAUX This digest is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . For archives and help click http://mail.lancaironline.net/Lists/lml/ LML website: http://www.lancaironline.net/maillist.html --0-1643265519-1261744219=:29607 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I was gratified to see that Rob's survey got some interesting comments going.  I didn't remotely mean to imply that topping it was a poor or even inappropriate thing to do, just that  without it being expressed in minutes of fuel the math didn't work out.  I suspect that if it were, there would have been a lot of "240 minutes" entries and that would have skewed the results to a much higher value, but with a higher standard deviation.  Regardless, there were replies that suggested that more fuel isn't always better, and I'm sure it depends partly on how much fuel capacity is available.  Those with extra tankage might not top it and still have more than someone with standard tanks.  Another suggested it depends on the accuracy of one's knowledge of the remaining fuel (like with a header tank).  In my case, I fly out of a 7,000 ft elevation airport that is 3800 feet long.  To me the takeoff is the most critical phase of flight and I very seldom take off with full tanks; only when the temperature and the wind allow and adequate margin.  I think the replies suggest that there isn't an absolute best answer - maximizing safety is a tradeoff between a number of conflicting factors.  It might be a good idea not to put oneself at either end of the distribution curve.

Merry Christmas everyone!
Gary

Re: [LML] Re: Fuel Planning

December 24, 2009 8:37:46 AM MST
From:
"Burr Bryan" <bjburr@mwheli.com>
To:
"" <lml@lancaironline.net>
Aside from weight and balance implications "top it" is always the safest in my book.  A wise old aviator once told me the following: " The sky above you, the runway behind you, and the air in your fuel tanks do you no good". In other words:  fly high, rotate as early as safely possible, and carry gas.

Bryan
N132BB

On Dec 24, 2009, at 6:52 AM, Gary Casey wrote:

Thanks, Rob, for posting the results.  The ones that said "top it" didn't abide by the spirit of the question :-) in that I don't know how many minutes of fuel that equates to, but there were enough replies in minutes.

From: Lancair Mailing List <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, December 25, 2009 4:00:03 AM
Subject: lml Digest #2896

Note: Forwarded message is attached.

        Lancair Mailing List Digest #2896

1) Re: Fuel Planning
    by Gary Casey <casey.gary@yahoo.com>
2) N193CG Takeoff
    by marv@lancair.net
3) Re: Fuel Planning
    by Burr Bryan <bjburr@mwheli.com>
4) Re: Evolution by Lancair number four takes to the air...
    by vtailjeff@aol.com
5) Re: Fuel Planning
    by vtailjeff@aol.com
6) Re: Fuel Planning
    by mjrav@comcast.net
7) Re: Fuel Planning
    by "Douglas Brunner" <douglasbrunner@earthlink.net>
8) Re: Fuel Planning
    by Chris Zavatson <chris_zavatson@yahoo.com>
9) [lml]'Twas the night before Christmas
    by "N320G" <n320g@hotmail.com>
10) Re: Fuel Planning
    by sky2high@aol.com
11) Re: Fuel Planning
    by "Dominic V. Crain" <domcrain@tpg.com.au>
12) Merry Christmas
    by "Dominic V. Crain" <domcrain@tpg.com.au>
13) Re: [lml]'Twas the night before Christmas
    by Kailani <freyas.favored@gmail.com>
14) Re: Fuel Planning
    by "farnsworth" <farnsworth@charter.net>
15) Re: [lml]'Twas the night before Christmas
    by Alain NOIREAUX <alainoireaux@free.fr>

This digest is sent to you because you are subscribed to
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