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Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:42:37 -0400
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From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
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Subject: RE: [LML] Re: stalling a plane
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Terrence,
Do you have any pictures of your "spats"??

Bill B 

-----Original Message-----
From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of
troneill@charter.net
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:04 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: stalling a plane

Amen to that for Bill.  
After  first learning in Cubs and Porterfields and Aeroncas from some WWII
jocks in 1946... with many, many stalls from all sorts of entries, and
especially right after takeoff... and a few years later after 4 years flying
Navy SNJs and P2Vs, I thought I understood stalls.  Then I bought Waco's
last plane and began modifying it, and realized I needed to know what it was
doing afterwards, so I made myself a simple AOA vane and put it on the left
wing in my field of vision.  After spending a hour playing with it in slow
flight I learned I didn't really understand the pilot-stall relationship...
and had a ball after stallingit to mark the stall angle on the AOA,a nd then
flying around for an hour with the wing just a degree or so below stall, and
with the wing first stalled and then quickly unstalled, over and over... and
in all sorts of attitudes.  And I realized that at high stalled angles I was
also stalling the horizontal tail! ... I tufted it to confirm that.  I noted
the slow nose-down pitch when the H-tail stalled.  So then I added slots to
the H-tail (to delay it's stall another 10-15 degrees) and found I could
then get very fast unstalling pitch-dpwn from steep stalls.  It had never
occurred to me before about the H-tail stalling.
Anyway, these are a few of my comments about stalling and AOAs,a nd why I
have put AOA vanes on every one of my planes since.
On my 235/320 I read all the CAFE and other pro-test pilot reports and noted
the slow unstalling reported, so as I was finishing it up (this kit No. 11
with the small tail)  I designed and added my 'spats', which are 2-position
slots, to the H-tail, and they seem to preserve the unstalling ability of
the H-tail... perhaps at the cost of a few mph cruise.  Still testing both.
I agree with Bill's comments about eh FAA not 'getting it' about stalls,
having talked to their guys in local and regional offices, and even to the
main safety guy many years ago (under Najeeb Halaby)...  They want a gage to
read out on the panel, where you should NOT be looking during base and final
approach... and they're not impressed by the Navy' switch to AOAs in 1956,
cutting their landing accident rate in half the very first year.
I'mnow  personally leery when flying without an AOA, but with one on the
wing don;t think twice about steep banks on final, watching the AOA.  No
sweat.
This is probably not of muich interest to the very experienced pilots who
know their planes... but maybe the  new guys flying these 'glass slippers'
will be interested, and consider adding an AOA.
Terrence
L235/320 N211AL
---- marv@lancair.net wrote: 
> 
> Posted for "Bill Maddox" <reddog@smwireless.net>:
> 
>   
>   I see this as a problem not with the plane but the pilots that fly it .
Some
>   of the past statements that are listed in several of the write inns are
>   correct  and some are total bunk . I see a lack of training come from
the
>   faa instruction in training new students as well . When I left the
>   instruction faze of my life I saw the mandates starting to come down to
no
>   spin training required for students in training around the late 70's .
If
>   you have a flight instructor that trained you on spins it probably was
in
>   the 70's or it was an instructor like myself that believed in the whole
>   training package to flight . I also see a lot of very low time pilots
flying
>   these planes . Also pilots that took anywhere from 3 to 8 or more years
to
>   build and then fly there plane without touching a stick . This is an
issue
>   that needs to be trained in high performance single engine planes before
>   getting into the lancair planes or best train in another lancair . Not
to go
>   out and rent a 172 and get some re-fresher  I F R  training . I can't
>   understand the no brainer of not having an aoa or a stall device in the
>   plane . As pilots we were teethed on this device from the start of our
>   training and now we get into a clean minimal drag plane without this
stall
>   devices . I don't understand the thinking of some of you pilots . I
wouldn't
>   fly a plane without a stall devise in it .Most of you came from 60 k
final
>   approach planes that don't have the correct approach  speeds that the
>   lancair has .
>   
>    I have stalled every plane I flew . from the C 150 to the B 757 . When
you
>   try the stalls in your plane you must have a forward cg in your plane
and
>   prefer it to be on the forward edge of the envelope . I stalled the
lancair
>   for the first time around  1990 with Don Getz  over Redmond ,Or after
>   climbing to 10 k . I stalled it straight ahead in a clean stall with no
>   power several times in a row  and several in a turn as well . In all the
>   stalls the nose dropped off and I added power and recovered nicely , no
>   tight turns just a smooth recovery  . Rudder control was not inputted
for it
>   wasn't needed This was done in 409L after the new main gear box was put
in
>   it I believe before the flight .   Rigging the plane correctly is a must
as
>   stated in previous statements as well . I really think engine out
training
>   is a must for the lancair as well . Sink rates and picking out a spot
for a
>   successful landing is essential . . Faa doesn't have a clue and probably
>   care less and for them to make statements is not there business . I feel
we
>   as builders and pilots need to balance our flying and building skills to
>   build a better plane and have a proficient pilot in the plane he or she
is
>   flying and not wait to have a government agency try to tell us something
we
>   all ready know  Bill
>   
> 
> --
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