X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:57:25 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: <2luv2fly@cox.net> Received: from eastrmmtao101.cox.net ([68.230.240.7] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3886813 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:55:43 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.240.7; envelope-from=2luv2fly@cox.net Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao101.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20091015155508.ZOKU6358.eastrmmtao101.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net>; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:55:08 -0400 Received: from 308h101 ([70.161.126.9]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id t3v61c00N0CHUG6023v6mv; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:55:07 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=5jcPNKfiXXlWzg9YZ8EA:9 a=w5p7gedZa52MVDKvm30A:7 a=PqvypZcQ9QvdYBsrP3Mk7Zh7gaoA:4 a=uSbk8B9grlQA:10 a=LEPCIYshTS0A:10 a=obwie6EyCFYA:10 a=4vB-4DCPJfMA:10 a=gF0ocAySiG36_Qyx:21 a=L6nynWoEeIItB1Gt:21 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=nlqisAXVnXBMShcTPWAA:9 a=CjBMAn94DiL291DDrtgA:7 a=wLRBgXBjBUJMvT9CessF9Vw1zKsA:4 a=rC2wZJ5BpNYA:10 a=6HvKFSpP4GiNlR2e:21 X-CM-Score: 0.00 X-Original-Message-ID: From: "Janie & Ed Smith" <2luv2fly@cox.net> X-Original-To: "Scott Seagrave" X-Original-Cc: "Lancair List" , "Charlie Kohler" , References: <536716.99064.qm@web53712.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Lancair Question X-Original-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:55:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D2_01CA4D8E.545B3A00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D2_01CA4D8E.545B3A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Scott & LML Group, (Scott, I'm posting this to the LML so it will become public knowledge - = hope you don't mind.) Welcome to the wonderful world of Lancair IV-P steps! Of all = the things we had to figure out, the step was probably one of the worst = and if the truth were told, we were pretty lucky with our installation! Our step installation was pretty much according to the Lancair drawings = that came with the kit. Some comments about our installation: 1.. Make access panels both top and bottom so you can work on the damn = thing! You "will" work on it, don't worry! 2.. Don't locate the step mechanism too far back in the wing root = fairing. Space gets tighter the further you go back. =20 3.. Position the bottom of the step as close to the rear spar as you = can. (refer to comment # 2) 4.. Don't try to get the cable that pulls the step up too tight - it = will break or pull the ball out of the end of the cable. Just tight = enough to get the step up into the cavity. 5.. Per Charlie, grind clearance on the gearbox where the clamp goes = around the gear leg so the possibility of jamming is eliminated. I'm = talking about the bolt on the clamp - if it ever slips around, it could = bind the gear where the bolt may hit the gearbox. It takes quite a bit = of grinding to get enough clearance. 6.. Spend some time shaping the guide tube for the cable. You want it = to "guide" the cable - not force it! After you get everything painted = or just before you fly, lubricate inside the tube to reduce friction. I = used a grease gun to "flood" the tube with grease. Watch the clearance = between the guide tube and the flap rod! Check it going up and down. 7.. Generously lubricate all the rollers, guides and latch mechanism. 8.. I polished the ends of the latch mechanism to reduce friction = (also well lubricated) After we did all of the above, the step would only come down at about = 100-110 kts. When we jacked the airplane and cycled the gear, = everything worked as advertised. Anything faster than 110 kts, the step = would hang up on the gear (the gear got ahead of the step). When on = jacks, the step would extend first, but never would latch into position = - even after all of the polishing and lubrication. Our "evaluation" of the step issue was that the spring was not strong = enough. I had several springs made during our testing phase and we = finally settled on a spring that was .100" diameter (compared to .072" = original diameter). According to the spring shop, this made the spring = at least 2 times as strong as the original. With the new spring, the = step would extend and lock into position with speeds up to 155 knots (I = haven't tested any faster). When we tested the spring with the airplane = on jacks, the step would extend and lock into position. The company that manufactured the springs is Custom Made Springs, in = Norfolk, VA. The owner of the company is Lou Schmidt. The springs are = identified as "Ed Smith's airplane step spring". Very creative - huh?? = Lou's phone number is: 757-489-8202. The charge for these springs has been $40.00 each - not too bad, = considering it is a custom made spring and each one is hand-made. I = recently ordered some for some other fellows on the LML and shipped them = out via Priority Mail. I did have a couple of extras made, so if you = want one, I'll be glad to sell you one of the extra ones. The Priority = Mail charge is $4.95. I don't think any of the fellows I sent the = springs to have tried them - they are like you - in the building = process, so there aren't any statistics - except for me. Sorry. If you = want to contact Lou direct, please feel free to do so. This is not a = money-maker for Ed Smith - just a service to the LML group. You do have to drill the hole that the spring tang fits into to at least = .100". I would keep the fit as tight as possible. I drilled mine to = .125" and I had the tang slip out once - no explanation. I reinstalled = the tang and it hasn't slipped out since. I did bend the tang a little = to "tighten it up in the hole". When Lou made the springs, I did have him wrap the end that goes around = the step leg into almost a complete circle. The original spring (end on = step leg) use to hang up on the opening in our wing fairing, but with = the end modified, I haven't had that problem. You will have to cut the = end of the spring so you can get it over the step leg. Just leave as = much as you can and still get it to go over the leg. Another theory about our step problem was that the boundary layer of air = under the wing was helping hold the step up in the wing. We never = pursued that theory, but at Sun-N-Fun this year, I talked to the owner = of a IV-PT that had riveted a "tab" along the step foot that stuck out = in the airstream when the step was retracted. The owner told me that = since he had riveted the tab in place, the step had come down every = time! It appeared to extend beyond the step foot about a half inch. = Maybe someone will chime in on this modification that has "been there - = done that". That does add some validity to our "boundary layer theory". = If anyone has any questions, please feel free to give me a call = (757-641-2387) or email @ 2luv2fly@cox.net. Tailwinds, Ed Smith ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Scott Seagrave=20 To: 2luv2fly@cox.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:35 AM Subject: Lancair Question Ed; I am currently in the process of building a IV-P and am working = on the retractable step. Charlie Kohler suggested I get in touch with = you about some changes you made. I searched the LML archives and saw = the posting where you described changing the spring. Two questions: 1. Is that pretty much the extent of the changes you made to = the step, or were there others? 2. Could you put me in touch with the company that built your = new spring, or get me one, or whatever? =20 I certainly appreciate any help you can provide. Thanks! Scott Seagrave =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00D2_01CA4D8E.545B3A00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Scott & LML = Group,
 
(Scott, I'm posting this to the LML so = it will=20 become public knowledge - hope you don't mind.)
 
Welcome to the wonderful world of = Lancair IV-P=20 steps!  <grin>  Of all the things we had to figure out, = the step=20 was probably one of the worst and if the truth were told, we were = pretty=20 lucky with our installation!
 
Our step installation was pretty much = according to=20 the Lancair drawings that came with the kit.  Some comments about = our=20 installation:
  1. Make access panels both top and bottom = so you can=20 work on the damn thing!  You "will" work on it, don't = worry!
  2. Don't locate the step mechanism too = far back in=20 the wing root fairing.  Space gets tighter the further you go = back. =20
  3. Position the bottom of the step as = close to the=20 rear spar as you can.  (refer to comment # 2)
  4. Don't try to get the cable that pulls = the step up=20 too tight - it will break or pull the ball out of the end of the = cable. =20 Just tight enough to get the step up into the cavity.
  5. Per Charlie, grind clearance on the = gearbox where=20 the clamp goes around the gear leg so the possibility of jamming is=20 eliminated.  I'm talking about the bolt on the clamp - if it ever = slips=20 around, it could bind the gear where the bolt may hit the = gearbox.  It=20 takes quite a bit of grinding to get enough clearance.
  6. Spend some time shaping the guide tube = for the=20 cable.  You want it to "guide" the cable - not force it!  = After you=20 get everything painted or just before you fly, lubricate inside the = tube to=20 reduce friction.  I used a grease gun to "flood" the tube with=20 grease.  Watch the clearance between the guide tube and the flap=20 rod!  Check it going up and down.
  7. Generously lubricate all the rollers, = guides and=20 latch mechanism.
  8. I polished the ends of the latch = mechanism to=20 reduce friction (also well lubricated)
After we did all of the above, the step = would only=20 come down at about 100-110 kts.  When we jacked the airplane and = cycled the=20 gear, everything worked as advertised.  Anything faster than 110 = kts, the=20 step would hang up on the gear (the gear got ahead of the step).  = When on=20 jacks, the step would extend first, but never would latch into position = - even=20 after all of the polishing and lubrication.
 
Our "evaluation" of the step issue was = that the=20 spring was not strong enough.  I had several springs made during = our=20 testing phase and we finally settled on a spring that was .100" diameter = (compared to .072" original diameter).  According to the spring = shop, this=20 made the spring at least 2 times as strong as the original.  With = the new=20 spring, the step would extend and lock into position with speeds up to = 155 knots=20 (I haven't tested any faster).  When we tested the spring with the = airplane=20 on jacks, the step would extend and lock into position.
 
The company that manufactured the = springs is Custom=20 Made Springs, in Norfolk, VA.  The owner of the company is Lou = Schmidt.  The springs are identified as "Ed Smith's airplane=20 step spring".  Very creative - huh??  Lou's phone number=20 is:  757-489-8202.
 
The charge for these springs has been = $40.00 each -=20 not too bad, considering it is a custom made spring and each one is=20 hand-made.  I recently ordered some for some other fellows on the = LML and=20 shipped them out via Priority Mail.  I did have a couple of extras = made, so=20 if you want one, I'll be glad to sell you one of the extra ones.  = The=20 Priority Mail charge is $4.95.  I don't think any of the fellows I = sent the=20 springs to have tried them - they are like you - in the building = process, so=20 there aren't any statistics - except for me.  Sorry.  If you = want to=20 contact Lou direct, please feel free to do so.  This is not a = money-maker=20 for Ed Smith - just a service to the LML group.
 
You do have to drill the hole that the = spring tang=20 fits into to at least .100".  I would keep the fit as tight as=20 possible.  I drilled mine to .125" and I had the tang slip out once = - no=20 explanation.  I reinstalled the tang and it hasn't slipped out = since. =20 I did bend the tang a little to "tighten it up in the = hole".
 
When Lou made the springs, I did have = him wrap the=20 end that goes around the step leg into almost a complete circle.  = The=20 original spring (end on step leg) use to hang up on the opening in = our wing=20 fairing, but with the end modified, I haven't had that problem.  = You will=20 have to cut the end of the spring so you can get it over the step = leg. =20 Just leave as much as you can and still get it to go over the = leg.
 
Another theory about our step = problem was that=20 the boundary layer of air under the wing was helping hold the step up in = the=20 wing.  We never pursued that theory, but at Sun-N-Fun this year, I = talked=20 to the owner of a IV-PT that had riveted a "tab" along the step foot = that stuck=20 out in the airstream when the step was retracted.  The owner told = me that=20 since he had riveted the tab in place, the step had come down every = time! =20 It appeared to extend beyond the step foot about a half = inch. =20 Maybe someone will chime in on this modification that has "been there - = done=20 that".  That does add some validity to our "boundary layer=20 theory". 
 
If anyone has any questions, please = feel free to=20 give me a call (757-641-2387) or email @ 2luv2fly@cox.net.
 
Tailwinds,
 
Ed Smith
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Scott=20 Seagrave
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, = 2009 8:35=20 AM
Subject: Lancair Question

Ed;
 
I am currently in the process of building a IV-P and am = working on=20 the retractable step.  Charlie Kohler suggested I get in = touch with=20 you about some changes you made.  I searched the LML = archives and=20 saw the posting where you described changing the spring.  = Two=20 questions:
 
1.  Is that pretty much the extent of the changes you = made to=20 the step, or were there others?
2.  Could you put me in touch with the company that = built your=20 new spring, or get me one, or whatever? 
 
I certainly appreciate any help you can provide.
 
Thanks!
 
Scott Seagrave
=
 

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