X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:22:38 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from QMTA14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.27.212] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3883163 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 12 Oct 2009 10:34:11 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.27.212; envelope-from=jmorgan1023@comcast.net Received: from OMTA20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.87]) by QMTA14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id rpfc1c0051smiN4AEqZfaZ; Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:33:39 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.104] ([71.238.169.160]) by OMTA20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id rqZK1c0053Tz7YP8gqZQfn; Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:33:33 +0000 X-Original-Message-Id: <82EF3634-8FA6-4CE3-A800-A6A607B79F35@comcast.net> From: Jack Morgan X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-2-25405861 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Subject: FAA RESCINDS INFO LETTER X-Original-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 10:33:16 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) --Apple-Mail-2-25405861 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I too can't resist getting into this never resolved discussion. The main reason for getting into deep stalls is to give you some hope of reacting properly to the resulting unusual attitude. A pilot well practiced in unusual attitudes can indeed recover from a stall in the pattern. The rapid rolling result from the turn induced stall causes the disoriented pilot to aggravate the problem with further incorrect control input. Higher performance airplanes make the unusual attitude training even more important as the stall departure is more pronounced. May those I have offended find peace. Jack Morgan From: Gary Casey Date: October 11, 2009 2:44:54 PM GMT-04:00 To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: FAA RESCINDS INFO LETTER Maybe I'm just adding fuel to the fire, but this talk about practicing stalls is, to me, a little confusing. It is generally acknowledged that a stall in the pattern is unrecoverable, and that seems to be true for certified aircraft as well(I've not heard "I stalled/spun in the pattern and lived to tell about it). So the objective is to avoid that stall. Recovering from a stall at altitude is apparently recoverable, but there are almost no accidents caused by high-altitude stalls - I think. So some recommend practicing stalls as a way to do what? avoid stalls, right? Maybe. There doesn't seem to be a lot of accidents caused by not recovering from stalls correctly - the accidents is caused by getting into the stall in the first place. But isn't the best way to practice avoiding stalls to practice NOT stalling? Just a thought - practice in most other fields of endeavor involves repetitively doing the thing that gives the desired outcome. We don't practice the wrong thing (the thing that produces the bad outcome) to see what it is like. I've got nothing against practicing stalls, but perhaps not doing it isn't a sure-fire path to the coffin. What percentage of the people that perished in a stall/spin had previous stall/spin experience compared to the general pilot population? I have no idea, but I'll propose that it might not be any different. Just a thought. Gary Casey ES157, Chelton stall warning, AOA stall warning, stall strips and ventral strakes installed --Apple-Mail-2-25405861 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I too can't resist getting into this never resolved = discussion. The main reason for getting into deep stalls is to give you = some hope of reacting properly to the resulting unusual attitude. A = pilot well practiced in unusual attitudes can indeed recover from a = stall in the pattern. The rapid rolling result from the turn induced = stall causes the disoriented pilot to aggravate the problem with further = incorrect control input. Higher performance airplanes make the unusual = attitude training even more important as the stall departure is more = pronounced.
May those I have offended find = peace.

Jack Morgan



Maybe I'm just adding fuel to the fire, but this = talk about practicing stalls is, to me, a little confusing.  It is = generally acknowledged that a stall in the pattern is unrecoverable, and = that seems to be true for certified aircraft as well(I've not heard "I = stalled/spun in the pattern and lived to tell about it).  So the = objective is to avoid that stall.  Recovering from a stall at = altitude is apparently recoverable, but there are almost no accidents = caused by high-altitude stalls - I think.  So some recommend = practicing stalls as a way to do what? avoid stalls, right?  Maybe. =  There doesn't seem to be a lot of accidents caused by not = recovering from stalls correctly - the accidents is caused by getting = into the stall in the first place.  But isn't the best way to = practice avoiding stalls to practice NOT stalling?  Just a thought = - practice in most other fields of endeavor involves repetitively doing = the thing that gives the desired outcome.  We don't practice the = wrong thing (the thing that produces the bad outcome) to see what it is = like.  I've got nothing against practicing stalls, but perhaps not = doing it isn't a sure-fire path to the coffin.  What percentage of = the people that perished in a stall/spin had previous stall/spin = experience compared to the general pilot population?  I have no = idea, but I'll propose that it might not be any different.  Just a = thought.
Gary Casey
ES157, Chelton stall warning, AOA stall warning, = stall strips and ventral strakes = installed
= --Apple-Mail-2-25405861--