X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:59:52 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from exprod8og108.obsmtp.com ([64.18.3.96] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with SMTP id 3740052 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:29:48 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.18.3.96; envelope-from=SSmith@lacsd.org Received: from source ([65.169.176.6]) by exprod8ob108.postini.com ([64.18.7.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKSkovPsQ7vpMUsUYMm9u7xtmLQwZgsvzL@postini.com; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:29:48 PDT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C9F997.5273C056" Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Diplomacy and Tact X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:27:47 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <9A1F9BB34A673A47BBCF6BF62F19CFC891F912@JAMAIL.lacsd.org> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [LML] Re: Diplomacy and Tact Thread-Index: Acn5lsYfK46tzY8XQaaWIe3+MFvDmwAAFffA From: "Smith, Stuart" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C9F997.5273C056 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with Rob. I was in contact with an owner who decided he didn't = need transition training, amoung other things, when his legacy was = finished. I politely sat down and discussed various scenarios and = outcomes with him three times, but he finished the last conversation by = saying he was an old man, this is what he wanted to do, he was going to = do it his way, and if he died in the process.... that's okay. How can = you respond to that? =20 I learned that an acquaintance was flying with this owner during test = flights. Again, I had several polite conversations with the passenger = pointing out the dangers of his decisions, and I was assured that = everything would be okay. After they both perished at the end of a dumb = and dumber scenario, I learned that the passenger had three small = children at home. I feel that if I had come unglued and started yelling = at this gentleman, maybe he would still be a father to his children. I = should not have been polite and I should have been more than gently = persuasive. =20 You can't fix stupid. You need to care, you need to be curious and you = need training to stay healthy in this hobby. Since we don't have the = homebuilt airplane police, one only needs money to get into these = fabulous airplanes. The large majority of homebuilders I know are = concerned and safety oriented, but it only takes a few ding dongs who = insist on rejecting reality to continually demonstrate Darwin's theory. = You can pick them out of a crowd. I think the best we can do is to = identify them and try to help limit collatoral damage. -----Original Message----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of = Chuck Jensen Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:24 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Diplomacy and Tact Did you inquire if he was using a Technical Advisor or other resource? = Aand then go around, by way of the back door, to gain entry that way? =20 =20 I'm not saying you didn't do due diligence in this instance, but if we = have a high degree of certainty that a person's life might be on the = line; or even worse, an unsuspecting buyer may later purchase this = accident-waiting-to-happen, then 3 attempts to warn someone of a = foreseeable, very serious problem does not sound like overkill (pun = intended). =20 =20 I've been stupid, and sometimes I've been stupid 3 times in a row, but I = would hope that anyone that saw I was making such a serious mistake, = would not simply walk away, satisified that they'd 'done their duty'. Chuck Jensen=20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of = rwolf99@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:14 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Diplomacy and Tact As I grow older, I realize that I can say what needs to be said without = insulting people. And yes, I can be more blunt with my friends. = However, a couple of years ago I was being shown a Legendary Mustang kit = at the local airport, which is surprisingly similar in construction = technique to our Lancairs. Some construction aspects were done very = well and some were not. The bad ones that I remember all involved the = wing fuel tanks. The fuel tank sealer was poorly applied without good = coverage -- there was exposed fiberglass in many places. But worse were = the holes in the ribs that were not closed out with micro. THERE WOULD = BE HONEYCOMB DIRECTLY EXPOSED TO FUEL. I told the builder that he = needed to close out the holes so as not to allow fuel to contact the = honeycomb and gradually soak thru the entire wing skin. His response = was appalling -- he had taken the hole that he cut out and stuck it in a = jar of avgas to see if it would break down over time. It looked okay = after six months, so he was unconcerned. I told him three times that he needed to close out the holes that were = to be exposed to fuel. I was polite about it. I told him how I o make = sure to get good coverage with the fuel tank sealer. Did he listen? = No. However, I stopped short of calling him a f**king idiot with a = death wish because it would not have made a bit of difference. If he = ever finishes his plane, he WILL be an accident statistic. Guaranteed. What would you have me do? Talk to the brick wall a little longer? = Call the "homebuilt airplane police"? I said what needed to be said, = three times, and was rebuffed every time. No, I walked away and told = myself that Darwin still works, but in this case it will take a little = longer. =20 - Rob Wolf _____ =20 Save energy, paper and money -- = = get the Green Toolbar.=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C9F997.5273C056 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I=20 agree with Rob.  I was in contact with an owner who decided he = didn't need=20 transition training, amoung other things, when his legacy was = finished.  I=20 politely sat down and discussed various scenarios and outcomes with him = three=20 times, but he finished the last conversation by saying he was an old = man, this=20 is what he wanted to do, he was going to do it his way, and if he died = in the=20 process.... that's okay.  How can you respond to = that?
 
I=20 learned that an acquaintance was flying with this owner during test=20 flights.  Again, I had several polite conversations with the = passenger=20 pointing out the dangers of his decisions, and I was assured that = everything=20 would be okay.  After they both perished at the end of a dumb and = dumber=20 scenario, I learned that the passenger had three small children at = home.  I=20 feel that if I had come unglued and started yelling at this=20 gentleman, maybe he would still be a father to his children.  = I should=20 not have been polite and I should have been more than gently=20 persuasive.
 
You=20 can't fix stupid.  You need to care, you need to be curious and you = need=20 training to stay healthy in this hobby.  Since we don't have = the=20 homebuilt airplane police, one only needs money to get into these = fabulous=20 airplanes.  The large majority of homebuilders I know are concerned = and=20 safety oriented, but it only takes a few ding dongs who insist on = rejecting=20 reality to continually demonstrate=20 Darwin's theory.  You can pick them out of a crowd.  I = think=20 the best we can do is to identify = them and=20 try to help limit collatoral damage.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lancair Mailing = List=20 [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Chuck = Jensen
Sent:=20 Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:24 AM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Diplomacy and=20 Tact

Did=20 you inquire if he was using a Technical Advisor or other = resource?  Aand=20 then go around, by way of the back door, to gain entry that way?  =
 
I'm=20 not saying you didn't do due diligence in this instance, but if = we have a=20 high degree of certainty that a person's life might be on the line; or = even=20 worse, an unsuspecting buyer may later purchase this=20 accident-waiting-to-happen, then 3 attempts to warn someone of a = foreseeable,=20 very serious problem does not sound like overkill (pun = intended). =20
 
I've=20 been stupid, and sometimes I've been stupid 3 times in a row, but I = would hope=20 that anyone that saw I was making such a serious mistake, = would not=20 simply walk away, satisified that they'd 'done their=20 duty'.

Chuck = Jensen

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Lancair Mailing = List=20 [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of=20 rwolf99@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:14=20 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] = Diplomacy=20 and Tact

As I grow older, I realize that I can say what needs to be said = without=20 insulting people.  And yes, I can be more blunt with my = friends. =20 However, a couple of years ago I was being shown a Legendary Mustang = kit at=20 the local airport, which is surprisingly similar in construction = technique=20 to our Lancairs.  Some construction aspects were done very well = and=20 some were not.  The bad ones that I remember all involved the = wing fuel=20 tanks.  The fuel tank sealer was poorly applied without good = coverage=20 -- there was exposed fiberglass in many places.  But worse were = the=20 holes in the ribs that were not closed out with micro.  THERE = WOULD BE=20 HONEYCOMB DIRECTLY EXPOSED TO FUEL.  I told the builder that he = needed=20 to close out the holes so as not to allow fuel to contact the = honeycomb and=20 gradually soak thru the entire wing skin.  His response was = appalling=20 -- he had taken the hole that he cut out and stuck it in a jar of = avgas to=20 see if it would break down over time.  It looked okay after six = months,=20 so he was unconcerned.

I told him three times that he needed = to close=20 out the holes that were to be exposed to fuel.  I was = polite about=20 it.  I told him how I o make sure to get good coverage with the = fuel=20 tank sealer.  Did he listen?  No.  However, I stopped = short=20 of calling him a f**king idiot with a death wish because it would = not have=20 made a bit of difference.  If he ever finishes his plane, he = WILL be an=20 accident statistic.  Guaranteed.

What would you have me=20 do?  Talk to the brick wall a little longer?  Call the = "homebuilt=20 airplane police"?  I said what needed to be said, three times, = and was=20 rebuffed every time.  No, I walked away and told myself that = Darwin=20 still works, but in this case it will take a little longer.  =

-=20 Rob Wolf
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