X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 22:12:35 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mta11.charter.net ([216.33.127.80] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3651164 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 22 May 2009 21:07:20 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.33.127.80; envelope-from=lhenney@charter.net Received: from imp09 ([10.20.200.9]) by mta11.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.01.00 201-2219-108-20080618) with ESMTP id <20090523010638.UUSW22327.mta11.charter.net@imp09> for ; Fri, 22 May 2009 21:06:38 -0400 Received: from CYBERMAX ([97.93.200.123]) by imp09 with smtp.charter.net id up6d1b00B2gEV4Z05p6ds1; Fri, 22 May 2009 21:06:38 -0400 From: "Larry Henney" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" Subject: Gear Relays are not working X-Original-Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 20:06:33 -0500 X-Original-Message-ID: <2CBB5C89A4554D57B66C673A1DC27E99@CYBERMAX> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C9DB18.CDEF9B60" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcnbCZg0iKfYUdVfQqCrs+mEfhpk8AANwJ8w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C9DB18.CDEF9B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bryan, Adding a Continuous duty relay (master relay) is a poor fix to many a problem. I have heard this so many times it kills me. IMHO, the correct wiring fix is to modify the Lancair wiring diagram. In my airplane, control power comes from downstream the 50 Amp relay as opposed to any other main bus. Wiring it this way as opposed to the manual diagrams prevents the relays from being energized with power off the pump relay (continuous use on non continuous relays lasts 10 minutes - I know). Additionally, troubleshooting this circuit is relatively simple. If wired correctly, switch up or down should power associated relay through the appropriate pressure cut out switch. Things happen..... The switches occasionally go bad, however, one ship in my shop has 20 year old switches that are so far working great fresh out of the 20 year old boxes. Also, pressure issues can develop. Specifically, it takes a while to purge the air from the system. I'd recommend several open dump valve bursts of 20-30 seconds (in one direction) as an aid to purge air. Air in the system makes the pressure switches a little persnickety. Bottom line, pressure gauges although not required do expedite the trouble shooting process. Another could be gotcha; If you've got power to your yellow "pump in use" light, make sure the two relay feeds are separated with a diode. If not, you'll get a push me pull you activity betwixt the relays/and / or pump. When the pressure circuit is met, no power should be on the relays. Larry Henney L360 850 hrs (about a third of that time spent contemplating the hyd system) _____ From: Bryan Wullner [mailto:vonjet@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:24 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Gear Relays are not working My lancair 360 was wired professionally. When we tried to do the gear retraction tests.....nothing. We checked all the wires and made sure all were getting power where they should. Checked the breakers, switch etc. We overran the relay and the motor ran so we figured it was a bad relay......went to Napa and bought 2 new relays today. Installed them. Same thing....nothing. Then we remembered that the relays were mounted to a fiberglass bulkhead and the case needed to be grounded so we attached a ground from the relay mounting base to ground bar. Tried the gear.....now it worked...BUT it instantly fried the ground wire on the relay small terimal......tried to measure the ohms of the relays and no resistance....how could it be that I have 4 dead relays all brand new? So today I installed a Master Relay. The ones that are all metal case. Now the gear works and no wires are getting fried........but Im not happy with this result as it makes no sense why the normal relays for this job aren't working....anybody have any ideas? Bryan ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C9DB18.CDEF9B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bryan,
 
Adding a Continuous duty relay (master relay) = is a poor=20 fix to many a problem.  I have heard this so many times it kills = me. =20
 
IMHO, the correct wiring fix is to modify the = Lancair=20 wiring diagram.  In my airplane, control power comes from = downstream the 50=20 Amp relay as opposed to any other main bus.  Wiring it this way as = opposed=20 to the manual diagrams prevents the relays from being energized with = power off=20 the pump relay (continuous use on non continuous relays lasts 10 minutes = - I=20 know).
 
Additionally, troubleshooting this circuit is = relatively simple. 
 
If wired correctly, switch up or down should = power=20 associated relay through the appropriate pressure cut out switch. =20
 
Things happen.....  The switches = occasionally go=20 bad, however, one ship in my shop has 20 year old switches that are so = far=20 working great fresh out of the 20 year old boxes.  Also, pressure = issues=20 can develop.  Specifically, it takes a while to purge the air from = the=20 system.  I'd recommend several open dump valve bursts of 20-30 = seconds (in=20 one direction) as an aid to purge air.  Air in the system makes the = pressure switches a little persnickety.  Bottom line, pressure = gauges=20 although not required do expedite the trouble shooting process. =20
 
Another could be gotcha;  If you've got = power to=20 your yellow "pump in use" light, make sure the two relay feeds = are=20 separated with a diode.  If not, you'll get a push me pull you = activity=20 betwixt the relays/and / or pump.
 
When the pressure circuit is met, no power = should be on=20 the relays.
 
Larry Henney
L360
850 hrs (about a third of that time spent = contemplating=20 the hyd system)

From: Bryan Wullner = [mailto:vonjet@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:24 AM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Gear Relays are not=20 working

My lancair 360 was wired professionally. When we tried to do = the gear=20 retraction tests.....nothing. We checked all the wires and made sure all = were=20 getting power where they should. Checked the breakers, switch etc. 
We overran the relay and the motor ran so we figured it was a bad=20 relay......went to Napa and bought 2 new relays today. Installed them. = Same=20 thing....nothing.  Then we remembered that the relays were mounted = to a=20 fiberglass bulkhead and the case needed to be grounded so we attached a = ground=20 from the relay mounting base to ground bar. 
Tried the gear.....now it worked...BUT it instantly  fried the = ground=20 wire on the relay small terimal......tried to measure the ohms of the = relays and=20 no resistance....how could it be that I have 4 dead relays all brand = new?
So today I installed a Master Relay.  The ones that are all = metal=20 case. Now the gear works and no wires are getting fried........but Im = not happy=20 with this result as it makes no sense why the normal relays for this job = aren't=20 working....anybody have any ideas?

Bryan
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