X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:04:07 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from server1.ecomdoc.com ([72.32.186.174] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.7) with ESMTPS id 3124258 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:39:17 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=72.32.186.174; envelope-from=greg@afshhi.com Received: (qmail 9449 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2008 09:38:40 -0500 Received: from 64.253.15.101.dyn-cm-pool85.pool.hargray.net (HELO acerfd6b6b72e3) (64.253.15.101) by server1.ecomdoc.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2008 09:38:40 -0500 From: "Greg Goodrich" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" Subject: RE: [LML] Birdstrikes and other structural damage. X-Original-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:38:59 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: <9CE3FFAB8A07434788C61839D4D7713905BF02@server.afs.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008E_01C913FA.7A56CB30" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01C913FA.7A56CB30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did a go around without a door on my 4 ( don't ask) . Our planes fly very sloppy with disturbed aradynamics, don't fly too slow. A side note 130 -140 is real fast with wind. Also I found Bose headsets don't work at that speed. Greg Goodrich 456A 700 hrs (with door) -----Original Message----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Mark Ravinski Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 7:41 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Birdstrikes and other structural damage. Guys and Girls, Let me share a little Air Force doctrine for you to ponder. First, Whenever you experience structural damage in flight, whether from a bird, midair, someone shooting at you or anything else, the safest speed is the one you are at - assuming that you are still controllable. Probably somewhat slower if you are not. This is because the stall speed is expected to increase with any damage. Second, Climb at a safe airspeed to a safe altitude for a controllability check and possibly bailout. I realize that we seldom fly with a chute and this part is of limited use. The controllability check is a gradual slowing down to see if the plane is still controllable at a speed at which it can be landed safely. Use flaps only if they appear undamaged. Tricycle gear airplanes have a maximum landing speed where the nosewheel touches down first initiating a porpoise and probable gear collapse. My 360 would probably be porposing badly at speeds about 50 kts above normal landing speed. This is a hard number to get exact data on. You can gradually increase landing speeds until you touch down exactly 3 point and then figure somewhat more as a practical limit. I would do the controllability check as a means to determine how messy the landing could be. Then go somewhere with plenty of emergency equipment if needed and maybe even land gear up. Lastly, After the controllability check, maneuver to your landing while holding a speed at or above the minimum you flew on the check. There are other checklist items also as appropriate from your manual. Mark Ravinski 360 1445 hrs ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Resnick To: lml@lancaironline.net Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: [LML] Re: My three Birdstrikes I have hit three birds so far in Lancairs. One on Takeoff at Night. 120knts Broke the spinner. One at 8,000 feet over the Columbia River in Oregon. 170 knts Cracked the Cowl One on Extended Base 140 knts Cracked the Cowl . Birds love me. Scott --- On Sun, 9/7/08, MikeEasley@aol.com < MikeEasley@aol.com> wrote: From: MikeEasley@aol.com Subject: [LML] Re: high speed passes and go arounds To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sunday, September 7, 2008, 3:09 PM One argument I've heard concerning high speed passes is the potential of a bird strike. At high speed the impact of a bird is much more dangerous than if it happens at approach speeds. I'm not sure how valid the argument is, but it makes sense to me. Mike Easley Colorado Springs _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01C913FA.7A56CB30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I did=20 a go around without a door on my 4 ( don't ask) . Our planes fly=20 very sloppy with disturbed aradynamics, don't fly too slow. A side = note 130=20 -140 is real fast with wind. Also I found Bose=20 headsets don't work at that speed. Greg Goodrich=20
          &nbs= p;      =20 456A 700 hrs (with door)
-----Original Message-----
From: Lancair Mailing = List=20 [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Mark=20 Ravinski
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 7:41 = PM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Birdstrikes and other=20 structural damage.

Guys and Girls,
Let me share a little Air Force = doctrine for you=20 to ponder.
 
First,   Whenever you = experience=20 structural damage in flight, whether from a bird, midair, someone = shooting at=20 you or anything else, the safest speed is the one you are at - = assuming=20 that you are still controllable.  Probably somewhat slower = if you=20 are not.  This is because the stall speed is expected to increase = with=20 any damage.
 
Second,   Climb at a safe = airspeed to a=20 safe altitude for a controllability check and possibly bailout. =20
I realize that we seldom fly with a = chute and=20 this part is of limited use.
The controllability check is  a = gradual=20 slowing down to see if the plane is still controllable at a speed at = which it=20 can be landed safely.  Use flaps only if they appear=20 undamaged.
 
Tricycle gear airplanes have a = maximum landing=20 speed where the nosewheel touches down first initiating a porpoise and = probable gear collapse.  My 360 would probably be porposing badly = at=20 speeds about 50 kts above normal landing speed.  This is a hard = number to=20 get exact data on.  You can gradually increase landing speeds = until you=20 touch down exactly 3 point and then figure somewhat more as a = practical=20 limit.
 
I would do the controllability check = as a means=20 to determine how messy the landing could be.  Then go somewhere = with=20 plenty of emergency equipment if needed and maybe even land gear=20 up.
 
Lastly,  After the = controllability check,=20 maneuver to your landing while holding a speed at or above the minimum = you=20 flew on the check. 
There are other checklist items also = as=20 appropriate from your manual.
 
Mark Ravinski
360    1445 = hrs
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Scott Resnick
Sent: Monday, September 08, = 2008 3:30=20 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: My three=20 Birdstrikes


------=_NextPart_000_008E_01C913FA.7A56CB30--
I have hit three birds so far in = Lancairs.

One=20 on Takeoff at Night.  120knts
Broke the = spinner.

One at=20 8,000 feet over the Columbia River in Oregon. 170 = knts
Cracked the=20 Cowl

One on Extended Base  140 knts  =
Cracked the=20 Cowl

.

Birds love me.=20


Scott




--- On Sun, 9/7/08, MikeEasley@aol.com = <MikeEasley@aol.com>=20 wrote:
From:=20 MikeEasley@aol.com = <MikeEasley@aol.com>
Subject: [LML] Re: high speed = passes=20 and go arounds
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Sunday, = September 7, 2008, 3:09 PM

One argument I've heard concerning high speed passes is = the=20 potential of a bird strike.  At high speed the impact = of a bird=20 is much more dangerous than if it happens at approach = speeds. =20 I'm not sure how valid the argument is, but it makes sense = to=20 me.
 
Mike Easley
Colorado Springs



Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, = plus the=20 latest fall trends and hair styles at=20 = StyleList.com.