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Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 18:08:38 -0400
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From: Tim Olson <Tim@5000feet.com>
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Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Training (Engine Out Practice)
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For your Cheltons, if you put them on a separate diode separated
bus with an aux battery, you can enjoy being able to have them
on during engine starts and do things like leave them on while
you're doing short ground starts.  Many systems will reboot
if you don't have aux power to them during cranking.  Of those
that don't, most have internal batteries.  I like having
the bus there so that I can get my WX loaded before flight
and get my data downloading as early as possible.

Tim


Jeffrey Liegner, MD wrote:
> Just to clarify for those thinking about the engine OFF procedure and 
> the outcome, my lancair friends in cyberspace, and for those worried 
> about my decion to practice this.  As we've all discussed, we practice 
> what we might encounter to prepare ourselves for the unexpected.  One 
> can't fully practice an engine out in a simulator or the airplane; I 
> know no simulator that shows the prop stopped in the video image, in 
> front of the pilot, which is initially startleing.
> 
> I haven't done this much, but I've done it to specifically learn a 
> number of important and preplanned items (and some not expected). And 
> I've shared them here because no one else has: best glide ratio, feather 
> vs nonfeathered, etc.
> 
> Hot starts are not a problem once you find out your particular method 
> and what to do to make it work.  Ask the pilots who give demo rides at 
> OSH and SnF...they hot start all day, so they know what works.
> 
> In the air, you have to watch for fuel flow and pressure, because you 
> won't hear the pump change tone when it grabs gas and starts pushing. 
> You have to watch a lot of things that at other times you use your ears 
> to monitor.  Duh...but a surprise.
> 
> When you crank, the Buss voltage drops quickly.  With my Cheltons on 
> that Buss, when the batter drops below a certain level (~10.5v I think), 
> the screens drop out, and the shortly they reboot.  If you rely on them 
> to give you engine or map or PFD info, you will be started when they 
> suddenly go blank...watch the EAU and fly the airplane via other Buss 
> and isolated Chelton.  That was a real surprise.
> 
> Attempting a restart is not like on the the ground...give it some gas 
> and a couple blade turns.  30 seconds is a LONG time...get used to it, 
> and be patient.  At 18:1 glide, I have thirty miles and plenty of time.  
> Try to relax, expand your vision to include a lot more.  Stay focused 
> and calm.
> 
> If the airplane runs out of gas, but maintains oil pressure, and I have 
> no gas elesewhere, I better have put that prop into full feather before 
> the engine goes cold (despite my stupidity in allowing this situation to 
> happen).  Because if I don't feather the prop ASAP, a fuel exhaustion 
> does not cause full feather counterweighted pitch change.  
> Surprise...but obvious in retrospect.  A good lesson.
> 
> There are other lessons for another time.
> 
> Risk awareness and assessment is important.  Minimizing risk is our 
> goal.  Practicing catastrophic engine failure in the calm of a well 
> studied scenario is better than being thrust into this situation 
> unexpectedly.  Just my opinion...we all have our different tolerances of 
> risk, and I concede that others have opinions different from mine. But I 
> know that we all care greatly about our friends on this listserv.  
> Whether you agree with me or worry about me, I know you encourage me to 
> always be thorough and careful.
> 
> My HPAT instructors are out there listening to me.  If they disagreed 
> with my postings, they have my permission to open up a can of whoop ass 
> in front of the group and flame me.
> 
> Jeff L
> LIVP
> 
> 
> 
>> For Jeff L:
>>
>> Your forced landing practice with the engine shut down,  even tho you 
>> are over a runway,  really worries me, especially since the L-IV/P has 
>> a long history of hot start problems.
>>
>> I'm not questioning the legality of the procedure (I would check with 
>> your local FSDO just to be on the safe side).  My concern is with the 
>> added risk factor.  What do you gain to justify the added risk?   When 
>> your engine will not restart, do you intend to declare an emergency?  
>> Do you expect all other pilots to give you priority? I guarantee that 
>> if you practice this procedure enough, you will face this problem.
>>
>> I fly the  SFO pattern at 1000 RPM and 120 kts but with the speed 
>> brakes extended.  I don't pull the prop because with an actual engine 
>> failure, I don't expect to have oil pressure.  My planned touchdown is 
>> at 1/3 the length of the runway so if the engine quits when I advance 
>> the throttle, the landing is routine.  This works for me.  Just a 
>> suggestion....
>>
>> Anyway, please don't take my concern as criticism as its not intended 
>> as such.  In my experience, flying in the vicinity of any airport is 
>> one of the most dangerous situations you can be in.  Why increase the 
>> risk?
>>
>> With all the latest insurance concerns, adding unnecessary risk to 
>> routine flying just isn't prudent.
>>
>> Regards, Bill Hogarty
> 
> 
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