X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 00:49:38 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com ([209.85.200.169] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.7) with ESMTP id 3115104 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 05 Sep 2008 00:11:22 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.200.169; envelope-from=jfcowell@gmail.com Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so265684wfa.25 for ; Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:10:46 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=kdKZla8uILX5GBOm0W/6trOXXYS46c7APKTX/gg0CFo+cz1jdKv33oXE/gep9tq3Vm SeEz7oKAAhrj++1JzZTMzhm7fIF2JqMVfVEXl4mv+B1ZPZMInzkYAMkxhshTS4UTtU/J AZgLvX6eBE4B9FRuRUyve7CAv8pZ18uuX4oW0= Received: by 10.142.242.11 with SMTP id p11mr3872078wfh.198.1220587846290; Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:10:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.164.13 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Sep 2008 21:10:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Message-ID: <9a1019e70809042110p452b704ev995855bff3f447d9@mail.gmail.com> X-Original-Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 00:10:46 -0400 From: "Jack Cowell" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" Subject: Re: [LML] Training In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_32010_23447162.1220587846277" References: ------=_Part_32010_23447162.1220587846277 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thank you for this explanation, Pete, and thanks too for your dedication, professionalism and relentless focus on Lancair particulars. On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 11:28 AM, wrote: > Hello All, > > I wanted to inform everyone of the challenges and issues with training in > Lancairs. I would encourage those that have questions to please email or > call me directly to discuss and offer further points to clarify. When we > began training in Lancairs many years ago it was simply through the desire > to bring "Jet like, type rating style" training for those flying a complex, > high performance single engine aircraft and reduce the accident rate. The > accident rate reduced dramatically and those receiving training were quite > successful. The flaw was the business model. I believe instructors should > be well paid and compared our rates then and now to that of Citation II > captains daily rate and used that as a bench mark. Our instructors cannot > be the type that Cirrus uses, the classic low time CFI that is building time > and you pay them $100/day. They would not be safe. We have had four > points of criterion for the Lancair CFI. Jet experience, Lancair experience, > Aerobatic experience, and Tailwheel experience. Not all points are required > but a matrix is used to determine their qualifications. This has proven to > be a very successful model of qualifying instructors but has made it very > difficult to get enough of them. > > Over the years we have raised our daily rate that we charge for training > because of the financial losses. It has proven to be very expensive to > train folks in these airplanes for lots of reasons. The paperwork involved > is more demanding, than literally flying a much more complex jet. Some of > our expenses included office supplies, web site, training curriculum > development, phone usage (I average, personally 3000 minutes per month), > office phone, Internet access, airline fees traveling to all of the shows, > hotels, traveling to meet the Insurance companies, traveling to Lancair for > a variety of meetings, an average of 2 hours per client spent prior to > training commencing, accounting, invoicing, Instructor fees and a host of > other costs that most people can imagine. Realizing the flaw in the model > we created the Seminar concept for recurrent training. It saves the client > the expenses of the instructor and we are able to get 20-40 people trained > for their recurrency requirements. Well, unfortunately that model is flawed > due to weather issues, cancellations, mechanical problems etc. Each seminar > after paying the instructor fees, hotel, airline travel to and from, food > and miscellaneous fees is a complete loss. That lent us to the need to get > hosts at each location. Through our hosts graciously providing us with > housing and the instructors happy to stay in a persons home, it moved from a > loss to a break even, if we overlooked the time commitment. Why keep doing > the seminars? Because it kept the prices down for recurrent training for > the clients and allowed us to get many people done at once, and reduce > the training need throughout the year. > > Scheduling is our biggest weakness for Lancair training and we know. In > the beginning Lancair was to provide a person to handle scheduling, that > didn't work for lots of reasons, no ones fault. Then David Hickman handled > it for a few years and it worked very well, he did it as a volunteer, was > not paid. He knew what the profit and loss was and refused to take an > income. I bought dinners instead. David tragically died and ever since > scheduling has been an issue. In an effort to offset the financial issues, > I fly all of the time, 320 days last year spent flying or traveling to the > work site. I only spent 48 days in my own home. Not a complaint but rather > a point to the fact that we are all dedicated to making this work and > finding a solution to the flawed business model. Why not hire a full time > person to answer the phone and coordinate scheduling? There is no money for > it. Every year has proven to be a loss for Lancair training and I am happy > to explain this individually. Despite this, we have hired a full time > person that will answer the phone Monday through Friday between 8am and 5pm > Eastern time at *727-524-9300*, beginning Monday 8 September. This will > finally solve the problem. > > Originally we tried the model of having instructors located throughout the > country in regions. Not enough Lancairs flying to support regionalized > instructors. The guys on the West coast were swamped and the guys in places > like Chicago didn't fly enough to meet the minimum requirements of the > insurance companies to act as an instructor. Each Lancair CFI is required > to fly a specific amount of time, in type, to maintain their currency to > instruct and its far more than the FAA requirements. As a result CFI's > began airlining all over the country to work with clients. This is the > current system for initial training and some recurrent, we know its not > perfect. Throw in some independent instructors sending fraudulent HPAT > certificates to AIG and everyone suffers. > > We looked at creating a dedicated Legacy and ES for training and there was > financially no way to make the money work. There just is not enough *new*Lancair pilots to even come close to supporting the planes. It came out to > roughly 20 days per month of flying to justify a dedicated trainer. We > don't come close to that number just for the Legacy and even less for the > ES. Hence we are reliant on the factory airplanes for training. > > Like many of you, I have been doing sim based training for other planes for > quite some time and there is real value using sims. When we get a new > Lancair client we ask them how much flying, what type of planes, and if they > are instrument CURRENT. All in an effort to tailor and provide an estimate > of his needs. The answers are often surprising, student pilot building a > IV, no instrument rating and I bought a turbine, on and on. The sim will > not help these folks initially, they need experience and basic training and > they are asking to do all of it in their Lancair. Just like those going to > sim training in jets who are flying regularly it is an opportunity to hone > their present skills and simulate emergencies. Having the fundamentals and > skills in general before they show up or they won't pass. Eclipse has faced > this exact scenario that is parallel to the Lancair scenario of pilots that > are not even close to being current and they have a huge failure rate. In > the Lancairs you don't fail, but they end up requiring many many days of > training to complete a VFR checkout. Everyone knows pilots that are barely > safe and not current, encourage them to pursue more training. Some may > reply that they don't fly IFR...Doesn't matter, keeping your skills sharp > makes for a better pilot. > > In the past the Sim was not an option due to how expensive they are to > model a :Lancair. We have been working closely with a sim partner to > develop a sim that will model the IV, Legacy, ES and Evolution via software > and make the changes for the different scenarios and be a *full motion*Sim. By offering all varieties of Lancairs it should be possible > financially, but the sim company has not given us the full and final > estimate. It has been proven many many times that sims, on the average, > without an instructor do not have much benefit. Are there exceptions, of > course but we are speaking on the average. > If the sim scenario works it will not be available for about 8 months to a > year. In the meantime we will continue our dedication to training everyone > that wants training, it is voluntary. > > The accidents have shown the the plane disregards prior experience. There > have been many accidents with high time pilots, medium time, and low time > with a common denominator of not receiving training. Training still, on > occasions does not prevent people from making big mistakes and displaying a > lack of judgement, but it will develop your skills to the standard required > to fly a Lancair the rest is up to you. > > No one thinks they possibly will have an accident the day they go flying, > for lots of reasons. However, we accept a risk every time we fly *any*airplane. Part of your job as a pilot is to mitigate that risk. Training > is one method of mitigation, no matter how good you think you are. > > Throughout the years I have never received an email, phone call or fax from > a pilot that said I cannot afford training and here is why. If someone > called us with a legitimate reason for their inability to pay for training > we would provide that person with a financial solution to get their training > completed. If it was all about the money and not an ideal, we would not be > training people in Lancairs, none of us. We want to create safe, proficient > pilots that further the freedom of high speed personal travel. These are > great planes that keep getting better! > > Please contact me directly with any suggestions, needs or solutions. We > are open to all. > > Thank you, > > Peter Zaccagnino > Pete@HP-AT.com > HP-AT.com, Inc > 1046 River Ave > Flemington, NJ 08822 > 908 391 2001 > ------------------------------ > Get the MapQuest Toolbar. > Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices & More! > ------=_Part_32010_23447162.1220587846277 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Thank you for this explanation, Pete, and thanks too&= nbsp;for your dedication, professionalism and relentless focus on Lancair p= articulars. 

On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 11:28 AM, <flypetezacc@aol.com> wrote:
Hello All,

I wanted to in= form everyone of the challenges and issues with training in Lancairs. = I would encourage those that have questions to please email or call me dir= ectly to discuss and offer further points to clarify.  When we began t= raining in Lancairs many years ago it was simply through the desire to brin= g "Jet like, type rating style" training for those flying a compl= ex, high performance single engine aircraft and reduce the accident rate.&n= bsp; The accident rate reduced dramatically and those receiving training we= re quite successful.  The flaw was the business model.  I believe= instructors should be well paid and compared our rates then and now to tha= t of Citation II captains daily rate and used that as a bench mark.  O= ur instructors cannot be the type that Cirrus uses, the classic low time CF= I that is building time and you pay them $100/day.  They would not be = safe. We have had four points of criterion for the Lancair C= FI. Jet experience, Lancair experience, Aerobatic experience, and Tailwheel= experience.  Not all points are required but a matrix is used to= determine their qualifications.  This has proven to be a very success= ful model of qualifying instructors but has made it very difficult to get e= nough of them.  

Over the years we have raised our daily rate that we charge for trainin= g because of the financial losses.  It has proven to be very expensive= to train folks in these airplanes for lots of reasons.  The paperwork= involved is more demanding, than literally flying a much more co= mplex jet. Some of our expenses included office supplies, web site, tr= aining curriculum development, phone usage (I average, personally 3000 minu= tes per month), office phone, Internet access, airline fees traveling to al= l of the shows, hotels, traveling to meet the Insurance companies= , traveling to Lancair for a variety of meetings, an average of 2 hours per= client spent prior to training commencing, accounting, invoicing, Instruct= or fees and a host of other costs that most people can imagine.  Reali= zing the flaw in the model we created the Seminar concept for recurrent tra= ining.  It saves the client the expenses of the instructor and we are = able to get 20-40 people trained for their recurrency requirements.  W= ell, unfortunately that model is flawed due to weather issues, cancellation= s, mechanical problems etc.  Each seminar after paying the instructor = fees, hotel, airline travel to and from, food and miscellaneous fees is a c= omplete loss.  That lent us to the need to get hosts at each location.=   Through our hosts graciously providing us  with housing and the= instructors happy to stay in a persons home, it moved from a loss to a bre= ak even, if we overlooked the time commitment.  Why keep doing the sem= inars?  Because it kept the prices down for recurrent training for the= clients and allowed us to get many people done at once, and reduce the&nbs= p;training need throughout the year.

Scheduling is our biggest weakness for Lancair training and we know.&nb= sp; In the beginning Lancair was to provide a person to handle scheduling, = that didn't work for lots of reasons, no ones fault.  Then David H= ickman handled it for a few years and it worked very well, he did it as a v= olunteer, was not paid.  He knew what the profit and loss was and refu= sed to take an income.  I bought dinners instead.  David tragical= ly died and ever since scheduling has been an issue.  In an effort to = offset the financial issues, I fly all of the time, 320 days last year spen= t flying or traveling to the work site.  I only spent 48 days in my ow= n home.  Not a complaint but rather a point to the fact that we are al= l dedicated to making this work and finding a solution to the flawed busine= ss model.  Why not hire a full time person to answer the phone and coo= rdinate scheduling?  There is no money for it.  Every year has pr= oven to be a loss for Lancair training and I am happy to explain this indiv= idually.  Despite this, we have hired a full time person that will ans= wer the phone Monday through Friday between 8am and 5pm Eastern time at = 727-524-9300, beginning Monday 8 September. This will finally solve the= problem.

Originally we tried the model of having instructors located throughout = the country in regions.  Not enough Lancairs flying to support regiona= lized instructors.  The guys on the West coast were swamped and the gu= ys in places like Chicago didn't fly enough to meet the minimum require= ments of the insurance companies to act as an instructor.  Each Lancai= r CFI is required to fly a specific amount of time, in type, to maintain th= eir currency to instruct and its far more than the FAA requirements.  = As a result CFI's began airlining all over the country to work with cli= ents.  This is the current system for initial training and some recurr= ent, we know its not perfect.  Throw in some independent instructors s= ending fraudulent HPAT certificates to AIG and everyone suffers.

We looked at creating a dedicated Legacy and ES for training and there = was financially no way to make the money work.  There just is not enou= gh new Lancair pilots to even come close to supporting the planes.=   It came out to roughly 20 days per month of flying to justify a dedi= cated trainer.  We don't come close to that number just for the Le= gacy and even less for the ES.  Hence we are reliant on the factory ai= rplanes for training. 

Like many of you, I have been doing sim based training for other planes= for quite some time and there is real value using sims.  When we get = a new Lancair client we ask them how much flying, what type of planes, and = if they are instrument CURRENT.   All in an effort to tailor and = provide an estimate of his needs.  The answers are often surprising, s= tudent pilot building a IV, no instrument rating and I bought a turbine, on= and on.  The sim will not help these folks initially, they need exper= ience and basic training and they are asking to do all of it in their Lanca= ir.  Just like those going to sim training in jets who are flying regu= larly it is an opportunity to hone their present skills and simulate emerge= ncies.  Having the fundamentals and skills in general before they show= up or they won't pass.  Eclipse has faced this exact scenario tha= t is parallel to the Lancair scenario of pilots that are not even close to = being current and they have a huge failure rate.  In the Lancairs you = don't fail, but they end up requiring many many days of training t= o complete a VFR checkout. Everyone knows pilots that are barely safe and n= ot current, encourage them to pursue more training.  Some may reply th= at they don't fly IFR...Doesn't matter, keeping your skills sharp m= akes for a better pilot. 

In the past the Sim was not an option due to how expensive they are to = model a :Lancair.  We have been working closely with a sim partner to = develop a sim that will model the IV, Legacy, ES and Evolution via software= and make the changes for the different scenarios and be a full= motion Sim.  By offering all varieties of Lancairs it s= hould be possible financially, but the sim company has not given us the ful= l and final estimate.  It has been proven many many times that sims, o= n the average, without an instructor do not have much benefit.  Are th= ere exceptions, of course but we are speaking on the average.
If the sim scenario works it will not be available for about 8 months to a = year.  In the meantime we will continue our dedication to training eve= ryone that wants training, it is voluntary.

The accidents have shown= the the plane disregards prior experience.  There have been many acci= dents with high time pilots, medium time, and low time with a common denomi= nator of not receiving training.  Training still, on occasions do= es not prevent people from making big mistakes and displaying a lack of jud= gement, but it will develop your skills to the standard required to fly a L= ancair the rest is up to you.

No one thinks they possibly will have an accident the day they go flyin= g, for lots of reasons.  However, we accept a risk every time we fly <= em>any airplane.  Part of your job as a pilot is to mitigate that= risk.  Training is one method of mitigation, no matter how good you t= hink you are.

Throughout the years I have never received an email, phone call or fax = from a pilot that said I cannot afford training and here is why.  If s= omeone called us with a legitimate reason for their inability to pay for tr= aining we would provide that person with a financial solution to get their = training completed.  If it was all about the money and not an ideal, w= e would not be training people in Lancairs, none of us.  We want to cr= eate safe, proficient pilots that further the freedom of high speed persona= l travel.  These are great planes that keep getting better!

Please contact me directly with any suggestions, needs or solutions.&nb= sp; We are open to all.

Thank you,

Peter Zaccagnino
Pete@HP-AT.com
HP-AT.com, = Inc
1046 River Ave
Flemington, NJ 08822
908 391 2001
Get the MapQuest Toolbar. Directions, Traffic, Gas Prices & Mor= e!

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