X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:32:49 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from web54402.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.49.132] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.6) with SMTP id 3063300 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:50:36 -0400 Received: (qmail 70212 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Aug 2008 00:50:36 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=39DkTwHvQM8ajNxJEL3Ex3zRxprIelRx20XQw/E9QSdoLua0M4Q1yXtlaJlFV8r7BtK9Xx4Y935QtYElRHTeFu9HT2/jBHzwnVUnAG9DkdFlmZOFq3+CLwoxYfamTkMbbxK+v2xcV2QC0Lmu0MmXfuHae6fgP0wd5Rs7OlLUnEs=; Received: from [76.8.220.18] by web54402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:50:36 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218 X-Original-Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 17:50:36 -0700 (PDT) From: randy snarr Reply-To: randylsnarr@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Finishing Costs X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-683414795-1217983836=:68165" X-Original-Message-ID: <577853.68165.qm@web54402.mail.yahoo.com> --0-683414795-1217983836=:68165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Scott, The pleasure was mine, Thanks for the kind words and your insights were very interesting... I look forward to the next dinger... Randy. --- On Tue, 8/5/08, Sky2high@aol.com wrote: From: Sky2high@aol.com Subject: [LML] Re: Finishing Costs To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 4:11 PM =20 Randy, et al, =A0 Let's see, prepping went like this (I performed these duties):=A0=A0A=20 week of pre-prep (plastic liner taped up=A0in the garage, paper taped on th= e=20 floor, clean, clean, etc), 30 minutes to apply primer (WLS, 1st coat - sque= egee=20 and brush, others sprayed on),=A0followed by=A02 weeks of=A0wet sanding=20 by hand.=A0 This was repeated thrice for two times (upside down before the= =20 vertical was installed=A0and right-side up, both with the wings=20 mounted).=A0 If I remember right, sanding proceeded through three steps,=20 ending in 320 grit. =A0 Then,=A0the lawn dart=A0was flown for 1.5 years in that final stage=20 of primer with minor surgical=A0modifications to the cowl and wingtip.=A0= =20 Ultimately, pre-paint prep involved a thorough cleaning, removal of the=20 temporary=A0Krylon N number, light sanding and more cleaning.=A0 Finally,= =20 the=A0application of=A0base coat (automotive white), color (Extreme=20 Rainbow (2 pints @ $450/pt.) and clear coat was accomplished by a=20 professional.=A0=A0The paint was applied=A0in an automotive=A0body=20 shop paint booth over three days with 7 hours of that time used for taping = off=20 the color areas.=A0 Re-assembly and control surface re-balancing=A0was=20 done in my hangar, followed by buffing a few days later.=A0=20 =A0 I can't tell how much time=A0I devoted to surface prep as I am sure 3000=20 of the 4600 build time hours were spent hand sanding one thing or another.= =A0=20 BTW, my fingerprints were non-existent for a long time and I wore thru abou= t 8=20 left-hand leather gloves. =A0 These methods seemed to work reasonably well as the plane received an=20 Outstanding Workmanship at OSH in 1998 and an Outstanding Aircraft at SnF i= n=20 1999.=A0 Of course, the judging criteria is probably tougher these days as= =20 the competition has stiffened. =A0 The finish has held up pretty well over 10 years and 800+ flight hours=20 (some=A0 done at race speeds).=A0 The bottom line - $5000 for the paint=20 work and supplies - of course, the painter was a friend that owned an auto = body=20 shop at that time.=A0 If I were to do this again, one thing would be to hav= e=20 another coat of primer shot on and sanded just before the final paint. =A0 Scott Krueger=20 AKA Grayhawk Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96 Aurora, IL (KARR) PS:=20 Randy, your plane is a beauty - especially with the=20 various=A0fuselage=A0enhancements you made.=A0 I was glad we met and=20 talked at OSH. =A0 In a message dated 8/5/2008 10:38:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 randylsnarr@yahoo.com writes: It all=20 depends on what kind or finish you are after. I spent 6 months working=20 3-4hours in the evenings and more on the weekends doing body work alone a= nd=20 then another 2 months at the painter to get a show quality surface to pai= nt=20 over.=20 1/3 of that time was learning the tricks of the trade and how it=20 relates to our airframes. It is easy to waste when not doing the right=20 techniques. I have seen paint jobs run around $20k or more even when the= =20 airplane is in primer basically ready for paint. The sky is the limit on = the=20 body work. The paint is easy in comparrison to the surface prep. I would = set a=20 budget and live with the best job you can get with that money.=20 Don't=20 let them grind away to get it flat as body workers do. You have to build = up=20 the lows not grind down the highs. The finish is not cheap but make=20 sure you are making good progress. I probably worked for about .25 cents = per=20 hour on mine as I did not have $35 k to drop on finish...I probably could= have=20 gotten a 2nd job working for minimum wage and had someone else breathing = the=20 dust. Unfortunately no one will care as much as you do...=20 =A0 Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews = on AOL Autos.=0A=0A=0A --0-683414795-1217983836=:68165 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Scott,
The pleasure was mine,
Thanks for the kind words and your insights were very interesting...
I look forward to the next dinger...
Randy.

--- On Tue, 8/5/08, Sky2high@aol.com <Sky2high@aol.com> wrote:
From: Sky2high@aol.com <Sky2high@aol.com>
Subject: [LML] Re: Finishing Costs
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 4:11 PM

Randy, et al,
 
Let's see, prepping went like this (I performed these duties):  A week of pre-prep (plastic liner taped up in the garage, paper taped on the floor, clean, clean, etc), 30 minutes to apply primer (WLS, 1st coat - squeegee and brush, others sprayed on), followed by 2 weeks of wet sanding by hand.  This was repeated thrice for two times (upside down before the vertical was installed and right-side up, both with the wings mounted).  If I remember right, sanding proceeded through three steps, ending in 320 grit.
 
Then, the lawn dart was flown for 1.5 years in that final stage of primer with minor surgical modifications to the cowl and wingtip.  Ultimately, pre-paint prep involved a thorough cleaning, removal of the temporary Krylon N number, light sanding and more cleaning.  Finally, the application of base coat (automotive white), color (Extreme Rainbow (2 pints @ $450/pt.) and clear coat was accomplished by a professional.  The paint was applied in an automotive body shop paint booth over three days with 7 hours of that time used for taping off the color areas.  Re-assembly and control surface re-balancing was done in my hangar, followed by buffing a few days later. 
 
I can't tell how much time I devoted to surface prep as I am sure 3000 of the 4600 build time hours were spent hand sanding one thing or another.  BTW, my fingerprints were non-existent for a long time and I wore thru about 8 left-hand leather gloves.
 
These methods seemed to work reasonably well as the plane received an Outstanding Workmanship at OSH in 1998 and an Outstanding Aircraft at SnF in 1999.  Of course, the judging criteria is probably tougher these days as the competition has stiffened.
 
The finish has held up pretty well over 10 years and 800+ flight hours (some  done at race speeds).  The bottom line - $5000 for the paint work and supplies - of course, the painter was a friend that owned an auto body shop at that time.  If I were to do this again, one thing would be to have another coat of primer shot on and sanded just before the final paint.
 
Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL (KARR)

PS: Randy, your plane is a beauty - especially with the various fuselage enhancements you made.  I was glad we met and talked at OSH.
 
In a message dated 8/5/2008 10:38:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time, randylsnarr@yahoo.com writes:
It all depends on what kind or finish you are after. I spent 6 months working 3-4hours in the evenings and more on the weekends doing body work alone and then another 2 months at the painter to get a show quality surface to paint over.
1/3 of that time was learning the tricks of the trade and how it relates to our airframes.
It is easy to waste when not doing the right techniques. I have seen paint jobs run around $20k or more even when the airplane is in primer basically ready for paint. The sky is the limit on the body work. The paint is easy in comparrison to the surface prep. I would set a budget and live with the best job you can get with that money.

Don't let them grind away to get it flat as body workers do. You have to build up the lows not grind down the highs.

The finish is not cheap but make sure you are making good progress. I probably worked for about .25 cents per hour on mine as I did not have $35 k to drop on finish...I probably could have gotten a 2nd job working for minimum wage and had someone else breathing the dust. Unfortunately no one will care as much as you do...
 



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