X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:08:36 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.1] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2724073 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:17:40 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.137.1; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id q.d5c.1c143721 (42807) for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:16:03 -0500 (EST) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:16:03 EST Subject: Re: [LML] /360 gear dump valve idea Transcon Record... X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1202706963" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 34 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1202706963 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Larry, =20 I don't believe there has been a similar problem with getting the gear down= .=20 There is enough energy in the system to get things moving - consider the=20 effects of gravity on the mains and the 100# gas spring on the nose gear. =20= The=20 problem is limited to raising the gear. One easy way to solve the problem=20= is=20 to get the pump running and break the pressure anomaly. Thus an "up"=20 pressure switch over ride (i.e. a hidden momentary push-button switch acces= sible to=20 the pilot) is a light weight and simple protection against an occurrence=20 becoming a vexation.=20 =20 You sure the egg had a little ole 360 in it? Or is the yolk on you? =20 Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96 Aurora, IL (KARR) Pilot not TSO'd, Certificated score only > 70%. =20 =20 =20 In a message dated 2/10/2008 10:00:38 P.M. Central Standard Time, =20 LHenney@charter.net writes: =20 Bryan, Gary, Randy S=E2=80=99s.,=20 Bryan, yes the ball and spring get chunked.=20 Gary, I=E2=80=99m incompetent at computer sketching but it is a one liner.=20= Perhaps =20 S.Kruger could help me. My thought is that a 3 way dump valve will directl= y=20 replace the existing dump valve. As far as the sketch is concerned, I woul= d=20 draw a line from the new dump valve to the center port of my pump. A piece= =20 of plane ole =C2=BC=E2=80=9D tubing slips in the pump and down to near the=20= reservoir=20 bottom.=20 A possible option for the dump valve is :=20 3-Way Gear Dump Valve=20 Long Beach Valve and Fitting=20 3940 Gilman St=20 Long Beach, CA 90815=20 (562) 494-6694=20 (562) 494-0493 fax=20 Part Number: B-42XHS4-BKB=20 HOWEVER: this whole 3 way dump valve may just be a feel good solution. I= n=20 the final analysis it may be just fine as far as safety of gear extension =20 (electric or freefall) is concerned. So far there have been no indications= =20 that anyone=E2=80=99s gear has hesitated to come down after cracking the du= mp valve (in=20 it=E2=80=99s existing design). As I mentioned one other time, the loss of=20= the=20 physical handle combined with the unique high to low pressure bleeding coul= d pose=20 a problem.=20 AND: Randy Stuarts external T shuttle sounds to be an elegant and simple=20 correction for the quirk which would preclude the need for the 3 way valve.= =20 Have you got a vendor and part that you are considering? We=E2=80=99d love= the data. =20 Do the 2 ends of the T go High and low pressure connections and the third=20 leg directly to the pump return port?=20 Disclaimer: The above discussion is from a list of things I=E2=80=99m tryi= ng to get=20 accomplished on my speeder. I have not done any of the aforementioned=20 projects to my plane (weight penalty, budget, time, honey do=E2=80=99s, etc= ). I haven=E2=80=99t=20 even got the darn gages installed which have been sitting in my hangar for=20= a=20 week. I do appreciate the feedback from those with more time on there =20 hands.=20 Did anybody notice that Bruce Hammers transcontinental speed record of Mar=20 06 got walloped by a blistering 30 mph. New record 288 mph by a Questair=20 Venture! Say it isn=E2=80=99t so=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..=20 Larry=20 Very Prompt Lancair 360LH=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Bryan Wullner [mailto:vonjet@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 2:14 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] FW: [LML] 235/320/360 gear dump valve idea Randy, When I removed the plug in my pump a spring and a steel ball came out. Do=20= I=20 remove these and then Install the 1/4" return line to this port? Bryan On Feb 7, 2008 10:34 AM, LHenney <_LHenney@charter.net_=20 (mailto:LHenney@charter.net) > wrote:=20 =20 =20 Randy,=20 Hold off on the machine work. Your pump is designed with a third port=20 (between the two now in use). It is threaded and ready for your return lin= e. A =C2=BC=20 " tubing can be installed as a down tube in the tank (mine came with the=20 tube installed).=20 Also, Randy Stuarts idea of a T shuttle sounds very, very interesting. I=20 don't completely know what a T shuttle valve is however. Thus, I'm grappli= ng=20 with check valve analogies and getting a lot of "how would that work?"=20 thoughts. Does this mean pressure on up circuit triggers opening of shuttle= from=20 down circuit, therefore T goes to third port??? I'm tempted to like this i= dea.=20 Additionally, could second T also tie in to third port and allow 3 way dum= p=20 common path to reservoir. Please tell us more R. Stuart=E2=80=A6..=20 Larry Henney=20 N360LH=20 Much less chirping lately after changing out pump O rings; Lancair also got= =20 more pressure gauges in stock and shipped mine.=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: _Sky2high@aol.com_ (mailto:Sky2high@aol.com) =20 [mailto:_Sky2high@aol.com_ (mailto:Sky2high@aol.com) ] =20 Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:49 PM To: _lml@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:lml@lancaironline.net)=20 Subject: Re: [LML] 235/320/360 gear dump valve idea =20 Randy, =20 =20 Remember that the reservoir needs a small vent hole so that air pressure or= =20 vacuum does not build up in the reservoir itself. Usually the vent is in t= he=20 filler cap or its threads. =20 =20 =20 Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96 Aurora, IL (KARR) Pilot not TSO'd, Certificated score only > 70%. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 In a message dated 2/6/2008 11:29:13 A.M. Central Standard Time,=20 _randylsnarr@yahoo.com_ (mailto:randylsnarr@yahoo.com) writes: With the way the hydraulic system is currently designed, you equalize the=20 pressure on the high and low sides when it is opened. For those of us who h= ave=20 pressure gauges, you can see that you can have significant pressure on the=20 system even when the valve is opened. I want to be able to not only equaliz= e=20 the pressure between the high and low sides of the hydraulic system with th= e =20 dump valve but also release the pressure on both sides. Today I purchased a 3 way valve to do just that. The idea is to open the =20 valve connecting the high and low sides and also releasing the pressure b= ack=20 to the tank. I will most likely run a low pressure line like nylaflow back to the pump=20 and make spin up a custom fitting on the lathe out of aluminum to go into t= he=20 dipstick hole and terminate the return line there. I will make a needle=20 dipstick checker that will screw into the same fitting for checking fluid l= evel. If you wanted to do it the easy way, you could always just dump the low=20 pressure line out the belly of the airplane onto the ground. It would take=20= very=20 little fluid to drop the pressure and there would be no need to deal with=20 connecting the low pressure fluid line to the tank. I hate pulling the airplane out of a cool hanger into the warm sunshine and= =20 watching the gear pressures rise to 6-700 lbs before the master switch is=20 turned on! We all know what happens when they hit 900. Yep no gear retracti= on as=20 the upper limit has been tripped by the system pressure.=20 My new valve would fix that!!! I hope...=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 Who's never won? _Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music._= =20 (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=3Daolcmp00300= 00000 2548)=20 **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. =20 (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=3Daolcmp00300= 0000025 48) -------------------------------1202706963 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
Larry,
 
I don't believe there has been a similar problem with getting the=20 gear down.  There is enough energy in the system to get things mov= ing=20 - consider the effects of gravity on the mains and the 100# gas spring=20= on=20 the nose gear.  The problem is limited to raising the gear.  One e= asy=20 way to solve the problem is to get the pump running and break the pressure=20 anomaly.  Thus an "up" pressure switch over ride (i.e. a hidden=20 momentary push-button switch accessible to the pilot) is a light=20 weight and simple protection against an occurrence becoming a=20 vexation. 
 
You sure the egg had a little ole 360 in it?  Or is the yolk=20= on=20 you?=20

Scott Krueger AK= A=20 Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL=20 (KARR)

Pilot not TSO'd, Certificated score only >=20 70%.

   
 
In a message dated 2/10/2008 10:00:38 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20 LHenney@charter.net writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>

Bryan, Gary, Ra= ndy=20 S=E2=80=99s.,

 

Bryan= , yes the=20 ball and spring get chunked.

Gary= , I=E2=80=99m=20 incompetent at computer sketching but it is a one liner.  Perhaps=20 S.Kruger could help me.  My thought is that a 3 way dump valve will=20 directly replace the existing dump valve.  As far as the sketch is=20 concerned, I would draw a line from the new dump valve to the center port=20= of=20 my pump.  A piece of plane ole =C2=BC=E2=80=9D tubing slips in the pu= mp and down to=20 near the reservoir bottom.

A possible opti= on for=20 the dump valve is :

3-Way Gear Dump=20 Valve

Long=20 Beach Valve and=20 Fitting

3940 Gilman=20 St

Long=20 Beach, CA=20 90815

(562)=20 494-6694

(562) 494-0493=20 fax

Part Number: =20 B-42XHS4-BKB

 

HOWEVER: =20= this=20 whole 3 way dump valve may just be a feel good solution.   In th= e=20 final analysis it may be just fine as far as safety of gear extension=20 (electric or freefall) is concerned.  So far there have been no=20 indications that anyone=E2=80=99s gear has hesitated to come down after cr= acking the=20 dump valve (in it=E2=80=99s existing design).  As I mentioned one oth= er time, the=20 loss of the physical handle combined with the unique high to low pressure=20 bleeding could pose a problem.

 

AND:  Rand= y=20 Stuarts external T shuttle sounds to be an elegant and simple correction f= or=20 the quirk which would preclude the need for the 3 way valve.  Have yo= u=20 got a vendor and part that you are considering?  We=E2=80=99d love th= e=20 data.  Do the 2 ends of the T go High and low pressure connections an= d=20 the third leg directly to the pump return port?

 

Disclaimer:&nbs= p; The=20 above discussion is from a list of things I=E2=80=99m trying to get accomp= lished on my=20 speeder.  I have not done any of the aforementioned projects to my pl= ane=20 (weight penalty, budget, time, honey do=E2=80=99s, etc).  I haven=E2= =80=99t even got the=20 darn gages installed which have been sitting in my hangar for a week. = ; I=20 do appreciate the feedback from those with more time on there=20 hands.

 

Did anybody not= ice=20 that Bruce Hammers transcontinental speed record of Mar 06 got walloped by= a=20 blistering 30 mph.  New record 288 mph by a Questair Venture!  S= ay=20 it isn=E2=80=99t so=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..

 

Larry

Very Prompt Lan= cair=20 360LH

From:Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 2:1= 4=20 PM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] FW: [LML] 235/32= 0/360=20 gear dump valve idea

 

Randy,

When I removed the=20= plug in=20 my pump a spring and a steel ball came out.  Do I remove these and th= en=20 Install the 1/4" return line to this port?

Bryan


On Feb 7, 2008 10:34 AM, LHenney <LHenney@charter.net>=20 wrote:

Randy,

 

Hold off on the= =20 machine work.  Your pump is designed with a third port (between the t= wo=20 now in use).  It is threaded and ready for your return line.  A=20= =C2=BC "=20 tubing can be installed as a down tube in the tank (mine came with the tub= e=20 installed).

 

Also, Randy Stu= arts=20 idea of a T shuttle sounds very, very interesting.  I don't completel= y=20 know what a T shuttle valve is however.  Thus, I'm grappling with che= ck=20 valve analogies and getting a lot of "how would that work?" thoughts.=20   Does this mean pressure on up circuit triggers opening of shut= tle=20 from down circuit, therefore T goes to third port???  I'm tempted to=20= like=20 this idea.  Additionally, could second T also tie in to third port an= d=20 allow 3 way dump common path to reservoir.  Please tell us more R.=20 Stuart=E2=80=A6..

 

Larry=20 Henney

N360LH

Much less chirp= ing=20 lately after changing out pump O rings; Lancair also got more pressure gau= ges=20 in stock and shipped mine.

 

From:Sky2high@aol.com [mailto:Sky2high@aol.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, Febru= ary=20 06, 2008 2:49 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] 235/320/360 gear= dump=20 valve idea

 

Randy,<= /FONT>

 <= /FONT>

Remember that=20= the=20 reservoir needs a small vent hole so that air pressure or vacuum does not=20 build up in the reservoir itself.  Usually the vent is in the filler=20= cap=20 or its threads.

 <= /FONT>

Scott Krueger=20= AKA=20 Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL=20 (KARR)

Pilot not TSO'd, Certificated score only >=20 70%.

 <= /FONT>

 <= /FONT>

In a message d= ated=20 2/6/2008 11:29:13 A.M. Central Standard Time, randylsnarr@yahoo.com=20 writes:

With the way= the=20 hydraulic system is currently designed, you equalize the pressure on the= =20 high and low sides when it is opened. For those of us who have pressure=20 gauges, you can see that you can have significant pressure on the system= =20 even when the valve is opened. I want to be able to not only equalize th= e=20 pressure between the high and low sides of the hydraulic system with the= =20 dump valve but also release the pressure on both sides.

Today I=20 purchased a 3 way valve to do just that. The idea  is to open the=20 valve  connecting  the high and low sides and also releasing t= he=20 pressure back to the tank.
I will most likely run a low pressure line= =20 like nylaflow back to the pump and make spin up a custom fitting on the=20 lathe out of aluminum to go into the dipstick hole and terminate the ret= urn=20 line there. I will make a needle dipstick checker that will screw into t= he=20 same fitting for checking fluid level.
If you wanted to do it the eas= y=20 way, you could always just dump the low pressure line out the belly of t= he=20 airplane onto the ground. It would take very little fluid to drop the=20 pressure and there would be no need to deal with connecting the low pres= sure=20 fluid line to the tank.

I hate pulling the airplane out of a cool= =20 hanger into the warm sunshine and watching the gear pressures rise to 6-= 700=20 lbs before the master switch is turned on! We all know what happens when= =20 they hit 900. Yep no gear retraction as the upper limit has been tripped= by=20 the system pressure.
My new valve would fix that!!!
I=20 hope...

 

<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 

<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Who's never wo= n? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL=20 Music.

 

=



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