X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 00:38:54 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from vms173001pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.1] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2718815 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 07 Feb 2008 00:35:35 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.1; envelope-from=tom.gourley@verizon.net Received: from jacky0da39824a ([71.111.134.35]) by vms173001.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JVU00HH7SA28432@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:22:55 -0600 (CST) X-Original-Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:34:39 -0800 From: "Tom Gourley" Subject: Re: [LML] ES Power X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" Reply-to: "Tom Gourley" X-Original-Message-id: <001d01c8694b$230f0630$640610ac@jacky0da39824a> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C86908.141C6840" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C86908.141C6840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Does anyone know if an ES with 160 HP is this enough power for this = plane? " It would probably get off the ground, but wouldn't have much = performance. A new Skyhawk with 160 HP has an empty weight of about = 1700 lbs, and a max weight of 2450. At 2450 lbs Cessna specs a sea = level climb of 720 fpm and cruise of 122 kts at 8000 ft and 80% power. = (Note that they're getting 160 HP from a Lycoming IO-360 limited to 2400 = RPM, not from an O-320 at 2700 RPM.) Lancair says ES empty weight is = 2000 lbs with an IO-550. A 160 HP Lycoming O-320 would be about 130 lbs = lighter so maybe you could get the empty weight down to 1850 - 1900 lbs. = However, Lancair lists Legacy empty weight at 1500 lbs but so far I've = only heard of one Legacy that came in anywhere near that number. (One = battery, one alternator, no speed brakes, basic interior.) Most are = closer to 1600 lbs. So I'm guessing a 160 HP ES will have an empty = weight of maybe 1900 lbs; probably more. Let's say it's 1900 lbs. Add = two people and 50 gal of fuel (that's if you don't fill the tanks) and = you're probably looking at 2600 lbs minimum, with no baggage. Add = another person and some bags or fill the tanks and you're getting up = close to 3000 lbs. Imagine a Skyhawk 500 lbs over gross. Yes, the ES = is slicker and would probably still be faster than the Skyhawk in = cruise, but weight is weight. The climb performance would be miserable. = I don't think it's an airplane you'd enjoy flying, and if you ever want = to sell it, good luck. By the way, have you noticed that Lancair no longer mentions the 210 HP = version of the ES in their ads? Tom Gourley ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C86908.141C6840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

"Does anyone know if an ES with 160 HP is this enough power for = this=20 plane? "

It would probably get off the ground, but wouldn't have much=20 performance. A new Skyhawk with 160 HP has an empty weight of = about 1700=20 lbs, and a max weight of 2450. At 2450 lbs Cessna specs a sea = level climb=20 of 720 fpm and cruise of 122 kts at 8000 ft and 80% power. (Note = that=20 they're getting 160 HP from a Lycoming IO-360 limited to 2400 RPM, not = from an=20 O-320 at 2700 RPM.) Lancair says ES empty weight is 2000 lbs with = an=20 IO-550. A 160 HP Lycoming O-320 would be about 130=20 lbs lighter so maybe you could get the empty weight down to = 1850 -=20 1900 lbs. However, Lancair lists Legacy empty weight at 1500 = lbs but=20 so far I've only heard of one Legacy that came in anywhere near that=20 number. (One battery, one alternator, no speed brakes, basic=20 interior.) Most are closer to 1600 lbs. So I'm guessing a = 160 HP ES=20 will have an empty weight of maybe 1900 lbs; probably more. Let's = say it's=20 1900 lbs. Add two people and 50 gal of fuel (that's if you don't = fill the=20 tanks) and you're probably looking at 2600 lbs minimum, with no = baggage. =20 Add another person and some bags or fill the tanks and you're = getting up=20 close to 3000 lbs. Imagine a Skyhawk 500 lbs over gross. = Yes, the ES=20 is slicker and would probably still be faster than the Skyhawk in = cruise,=20 but weight is weight. The climb performance would be = miserable. I=20 don't think it's an airplane you'd enjoy flying, and if you ever want to = sell=20 it, good luck.

By the way, have you noticed that Lancair no longer mentions the = 210 HP=20 version of the ES in their ads?

Tom Gourley

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C86908.141C6840--