X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:09:12 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.230] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.9) with ESMTP id 2101059 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:14:51 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.249.82.230; envelope-from=akadamson@gmail.com Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id t11so531601wxc for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:14:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:references:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:x-mailer:x-mimeole:in-reply-to:thread-index:sender; b=dMRF2iyUF7fxzyRmHM3hgTZNxvS5QwDAHbxf+u2vawozoM4e9ObkKlm3sGn+6xLjzMJ+byUgATLatA5mL1df8q5VpRWWbVBwy2rZ/6pMSOPT9BUG2q/XjCVCDcw8Wlg6psF2/0sJC4YBegO5z2UVypEcDgWoSYFp6mbka+bqt4A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:from:to:references:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:x-mailer:x-mimeole:in-reply-to:thread-index:sender; b=iuvabpzHDVG5LlChcgwig9CwZszLmY7LxLasDtfcu0Md/3bWxuceoo2iJrucYkyAPMf3Ud8MTmGpVZDQgxuh7zR8vpxE+sluIbz3zUgGvPswAdb+1KUIOe3TDXQoLdkNiSg0IvsbFI92UcffrulCQ9Yr1HsvS8RJRoE4QqwTROs= Received: by 10.70.59.17 with SMTP id h17mr1975427wxa.1181783655324; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:14:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from Typhoon ( [76.97.47.101]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 33sm1502007wra.2007.06.13.18.14.13 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:14:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Alan Adamson" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Boost Pump X-Original-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:14:14 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: <00ed01c7ae21$53172cd0$2201a8c0@highrf.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00EE_01C7ADFF.CC058CD0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcetigtMsstv8/3JS/ScAgwio389FQAlX8qQ X-Original-Sender: Alan Adamson This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00EE_01C7ADFF.CC058CD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I realized that between all this discussion I many have provided comments that would mis-lead someone who may be looking at the Vertical Power equipment. To make a point, there are many ways, when using Vertical Power, that you can do a specific task. You can allow software to drive a function in an automatic fashion if you like, or you can create multiple mechanical backup paths. In this specific instance. Yes, you could put the boost pump on soft switches within the VP environment. *OR*, you can put it on mechanical switches, external to the VP environment. Either way, VP can be configured to know if a switch or other type of mechanism is providing control to a specific function. This is one of the huge advantages in using a system that monitors the electrical system and the airframe - just about anything can be configured to be controlled or monitored by the VP system. If configured correctly, you can have your cake and eat it too. For more information, best place to start is www.verticalpower.com Alan _____ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Alan Adamson Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 2:56 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Boost Pump Like I said, I certainly wish there was more supportive data around to determine the best approach... I just offer some unqualified food for thot... Looks like I succeeded :) Dennis, yes you are correct, I'm certainly not proposing any changes to the fuel system, just thinking outloud about the use of boost pumps. BTW, if you want to keep a single switch Eaton makes a DPDT 3 position switch with a manual lockable position on one side. So it works as a toggle to the middle position and then to go to the 3rd position, you'd have to pull out on the lever and move it to the 3rd position and then it will be locked in that position until you pull the lever out. This way, you could use OFF and Low boost on the toggle side, and if needed HIGH boost, locked if needed in an emergency. That's what I was going to do until I went down the Vertical Power route. Alan _____ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Dennis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:47 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Boost Pump boost pump is on low; the engine keeps idling. According to Flying Magazine's September 2004 Aftermath column, a Bonanza with a TCM TSIO-520 crashed shortly after takeoff probably because the pilot inadvertently had the boost pump in the high position. According to the article, full power operation with the boost pump on high would not cause an appreciable loss of power, but (according to the NTSB) when manifold pressure is reduced below 24 inches, the engine will quit. ------=_NextPart_000_00EE_01C7ADFF.CC058CD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I realized that between all this discussion I = many have=20 provided comments that would mis-lead someone who may be looking at the = Vertical=20 Power equipment.
 
To make a point, there are many ways, when = using Vertical=20 Power, that you can do a specific task.  You can allow software to = drive a=20 function in an automatic fashion if you like, or you can create = multiple=20 mechanical backup paths.  In this specific instance.  Yes, you = could=20 put the boost pump on soft switches within the VP environment.  = *OR*, you=20 can put it on mechanical switches, external to the VP environment.  = Either=20 way, VP can be configured to know if a switch or other type=20 of mechanism is providing control to a specific=20 function.
 
This is one of the huge advantages in = using a system=20 that monitors the electrical system and the airframe - just about = anything=20 can be configured to be controlled or monitored by the VP=20 system.    If configured correctly, you can have = your cake=20 and eat it too.
 
For more information, best place to start is www.verticalpower.com=20
 
Alan
From: Lancair Mailing List=20 [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Alan = Adamson
Sent:=20 Wednesday, June 13, 2007 2:56 AM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Boost=20 Pump

Like I said, I certainly wish there was more = supportive=20 data around to determine the best approach... I just offer some = unqualified food=20 for thot... Looks like I succeeded :)
 
Dennis, yes you are correct, I'm certainly = not=20 proposing any changes to the fuel system, just thinking outloud about = the use of=20 boost pumps.
 
BTW, if you want to keep a single = switch  Eaton=20 makes a DPDT 3 position switch with a manual lockable position on one=20 side.  So it works as a toggle to the middle position and then to = go to the=20 3rd position, you'd have to pull out on the lever and move it to the 3rd = position and then it will be locked in that position until you pull the = lever=20 out.
 
This way, you could use OFF and Low boost on = the toggle=20 side, and if needed HIGH boost, locked if needed in an emergency.  = That's=20 what I was going to do until I went down the Vertical Power=20 route.
 
Alan

From: Lancair Mailing List=20 [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Dennis=20 Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:47 PM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Boost = Pump

boost pump is on low; the engine = keeps=20 idling.
 
According to Flying = Magazine's=20 September 2004 Aftermath column, a Bonanza with a TCM TSIO-520 = crashed=20 shortly after takeoff probably because the pilot inadvertently had the = boost=20 pump in the high position.  According to the article, full power = operation=20 with the boost pump on high would not cause an appreciable loss of = power, but=20 (according to the NTSB) when manifold pressure is reduced below 24 = inches, the=20 engine will quit.
 
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