X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 19:23:53 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from smtp102.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([216.136.174.140] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with SMTP id 1112102 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 13 May 2006 15:52:39 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.136.174.140; envelope-from=djmolny@yahoo.com Received: (qmail 47955 invoked from network); 13 May 2006 19:51:04 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Received:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To:thread-index; b=QRjyAnuYF4J1YGvPtJxn4lGj5+70PGOdjnDDIbFe4Sfhw56AIH+6GddAhC8EHzUldAkY09+hOdemOJTmTTDbXkoZ6snX3QC9VmBTfwN0pEYAMcL5ZQRVWWsLV77AndutNU4NOC7AVBWq7shESq8zeHkGwJd4i1Kb2oYRW5pmqag= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ddzfqt21) (djmolny@67.174.191.165 with login) by smtp102.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 May 2006 19:51:04 -0000 From: "DJ Molny" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" Subject: RE: [LML] "unsafe" airplanes X-Original-Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 13:51:00 -0600 X-Original-Message-ID: <008a01c676c6$8fa2ef60$6402a8c0@ddzfqt21> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 In-Reply-To: thread-index: AcZ2vcASn7xMmoDWRmyJQbbD1/oclgABBs4g John Halle writes: > After reading Rienk Ayers' post about IVP's being unsafe I have been thinking if there > is any such thing as an "unsafe airplane". After 15 minutes, I can come up with two categories: > airplanes that are grossly aerodynamically unstable or otherwise have design characteristics that > make them almost unflyable and airplanes that are so badly maintained that they have essential gear > that does not work. I suppose that's one way to look at it. To paraphrase: if the airplane can be flown at all, then it is not "unsafe" and (by extension) any failure rests with the pilot. That's quite a black-and-white definition. Is stalling in the traffic pattern a pilot error? Absolutely. But if Aircraft A warns of the impending stall and Aircraft B does not, and Aircraft A allows for a rapid recovery while Aircraft B does not, then surely we can agree that Aircraft A is safer in that particular situation? That's why tight rope walkers use safety nets, cars have airbags, etc., etc.... as a level of redundancy in case things don't go exactly according to plan. I believe that safety is a continuum, and there will never be a common definition of "safe" or "unsafe", and that's OK. But let's look at ALL the factors that affect safety, not just pilot ability. (Although that pilot ability should certainly be considered very carefully.) Obviously different airplanes place different demands their pilots. The greater those demands, the less safe the aircraft is overall, pure and simple. And on that note, it gave me chills to read that a professional pilot in the business of high performance training may have (MAY have) spun in during a classic emergency situation covered by the very training he provided. If true, that does not speak well for the L-IV series, nor does it bode well for pilots with lesser credentials. Regards, DJ Molny Extra 300L N133DF Rocky Mountain Aerobatic Club