X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 14:47:30 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.37] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1111956 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 13 May 2006 12:44:22 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.157.37; envelope-from=VTAILJEFF@aol.com Received: from VTAILJEFF@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.5.) id q.468.2daf52 (29673) for ; Sat, 13 May 2006 12:43:21 -0400 (EDT) From: VTAILJEFF@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <468.2daf52.319766a9@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 12:43:21 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Crash X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1147538601" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5026 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1147538601 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/13/2006 8:59:45 AM Central Standard Time, jeremyfisher@verizon.net writes: The point is that you need a set amount of energy to turn back. It can be speed or altitude, they are interchangeable, so it really does not matter within limits whether you climb shallowly or steeply. Jerry, I agree with most of what you say but I believe your above statement is incorrect when it comes to the GA aircraft (based on my experience as a flight instructor). In demonstrating the engine out turnback maneuver in an A-36 Bonanza, one is always much better off to have climbed out at Vx and achieved as much altitude in as short a distance as possible versus accelerating to say a 120 knot cruise climb speed. If the engine quits when you are at 80 knots and 1500 AGL, you are able to turn around and get back to the runway . The same distance from the field at 120 knots and 700 feet won't cut it. Try it sometime. A Vx climb keeps you close to the runway and makes the turnback achievable in many cases. The low fast departure does not. At Vx you are close to L/D max (where drag is minimized). At a higher speed more engine energy is used to overcome drag. Drag is the big penalty factor you are discounting here. It does matter for light single engine aircraft to get to altitude as quickly as possible after rotation. Regards, Jeff Edwards (practiced that many times) -------------------------------1147538601 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In a message dated 5/13/2006 8:59:45 AM Central Standard Time,=20 jeremyfisher@verizon.net writes:

<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>The=20 point is that you need a set amount of energy to turn back. It can
be=20 speed or altitude, they are interchangeable, so it really does not
mat= ter=20 within limits whether you climb shallowly or steeply.<= /DIV>

Jerry,

I agree with most of what you say but I believe your above statement is= =20 incorrect when it comes to the GA aircraft (based on my experience as a flig= ht=20 instructor).

In demonstrating the engine out turnback maneuver in an A-36 Bonanza, o= ne=20 is always much better off to have climbed out at Vx and achieved as much=20 altitude in as short a distance as possible versus accelerating to say a 120= =20 knot cruise climb speed. If the engine quits when you are at 80 knots a= nd=20 1500 AGL, you are able to turn around and get back to the runway . The same=20 distance from the field at 120 knots and 700 feet won't cut it. Try it somet= ime.=20 A Vx climb keeps you close to the runway and makes the turnback achievable i= n=20 many cases. The low fast departure does not.

At Vx you are close to L/D max (where drag is minimized). At a higher s= peed=20 more engine energy is used to overcome drag. Drag is the big penalty factor=20= you=20 are discounting here. It does matter for light single engine aircraft to get= to=20 altitude as quickly as possible after rotation.

Regards,

Jeff Edwards

(practiced that many times)

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