Return-Path: Received: from pop3.olsusa.com ([63.150.212.2] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.1) with ESMTP id 1010221 for rob@logan.com; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:55:29 -0500 Received: from mta06bw.bigpond.com ([139.134.6.96]) by pop3.olsusa.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-71866U8000L800S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:10:11 -0500 Received: from hostname ([144.135.24.87]) by mta06bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id GPG6ME00.CVV for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:18:14 +1000 Received: from 144.138.108.76 ([144.138.108.76]) by bwmam07.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0h 56/8829884); 05 Jan 2002 14:11:08 Message-ID: <003001c1959e$f31cb200$4c6c8a90@direcpc.com> From: "Fred Moreno" To: "Lancair list" Subject: Engine inquiries for George Braley Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 10:44:52 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: lancair.list@olsusa.com Reply-To: lancair.list@olsusa.com <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Hi George. I'd like to pick you brain on an engine topic that I think all readers can appreciate: engine smoothness. (I am referring to the actual vibration and smoothness levels one feels in cruise as opposed to the "automatic rough" phenomena that I frequently experience during night, IFR, over the mountains flight conditions.) A couple of years ago I had a talk with the RAM folks (who do the work with TSIO-520's in twin Cessnas) at OSH, and the fellow made the passing comment that measurements of combustion pressures in these engines showed that even in "steady state" operation the pressures recorded in an individual cylinder varied substantially from cycle to cycle. He asserted that one could balance an engine and prop as much as you like, but these pressure variations would give rise to a vibration harshness that could never be controlled by balancing alone. Seems reasonable to me. I kept his comments in mind when I started reading some of the new engine text books and learning a bit about electronic fuel injection and the ability to more carefully control the mixture into each cylinder. I also note with interest the careful work done on intake manifolds in modern automotive engines. This contrasts dramatically from the induction system of my previous plane, a TR-182 with a carbureted, turbocharged Lycoming O-540 engine. This beast used the normal Lycoming intake manifold (buried in part in the oil sump) with six intake tubes radiating up to the individual cylinders. I had it fully instrumented, and fought boredom on long flights fiddling with throttle butterfly position, manifold pressure, RPM, mixture and anything else I could think of while recording pages and pages of data which I would later plot. The EGT spread was simply awful under all conditions, and there was not much you could do about it. If you leaned it to "peak" (which peak?) as recommended in the book, it burned some exhaust valves after about 800 hours. Burning more fuel saved exhaust valves, but resulted in the same money consumption, but over a longer period of time. And this engine was a slouch, putting out only 235 horsepower from 540 cubic inches. The Continental 470 and 520 engines use a log manifold design under the cylinders as opposed to the Malibu 520-BE and the 550 engines which have a top intake manifold that has been more carefully designed to equalize air flow and mixture. The later engines are reputedly capable of MUCH smoother operation suggesting the truth of assertion that mixture uniformity contributes to more equal combustion events cycle to cycle, and thus more smoothness. So here is my current hypothesis which I would like you to comment upon. In a primitive induction system (such as the Lycoming I used to fly or the 470/520 bottom induction Continentals) designed just to get air to the cylinders at minimum cost and complexity, the result is dynamic behavior with pressure waves ricocheting from end to end in a fairly chaotic fashion thus causing different amounts of air to arrive at a particular intake valve, varying from cycle to cycle. Thus, even with carefully balanced fuel injection that squirts precisely the same amount of fuel each cycle, there will be a difference in mixture strength cycle to cycle because the air delivered to the cylinder varies in a semi-random fashion. Consequently, combustion speed, peak pressures, total power delivered, etc. all vary from cycle to cycle, and from cylinder to cylinder in a semi-chaotic way varying over time as well as cylinder to cylinder. In my mind, this differs substantially from the nice, regular, standing wave behavior one would see from a modern auto engine with electronic fuel injectors and carefully designed intake manifolds with equal length runners, carefully designed inlets, and other careful attention to detail. I gaze upon these new plastic intake manifolds with their aerodynamic sophistication with some admiration. So, my question (at last.....) - What kind of cycle to cycle variations do you see in your engine testing? I presume that your optical instrumentation permits you to get fairly high quality traces of cylinder pressure versus time (or rotation) and that with enough data storage in your data acquisition system, you can see how an individual cylinder behaves through a series of cycles. (Then again, this IS asking a lot of a measurement system.) If so, what do you see in terms of variation cycle to cycle? How does this relate to intake manifold design? What other factors affect these variations? And do these variations show up in the form of engine smoothness (or lack of it) as perceived by the pilot? Related: would you care to comment on the famous "Lycoming knock" reported by many? For those not "in the know," this refers to the tendency of Lycoming engines to cruise nicely, and then make about 10-20 knocking noises in a row which then disappears immediately after your ears prick up in concern. In my plane, the frequency seemed to correspond to one cylinder making the offending noise a few times in a row, and then returning to normalcy. It happens often enough that it is not just "automatic rough" (happens also day VFR), and it remains a mystery as far as I know. Your comments and contributions are most appreciated. Keep up the good work. Fred Moreno >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye@olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>