X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:10:59 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.7] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.4) with ESMTP id 1009441 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:52:38 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.137.7; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id q.d1.2b2bd0a9 (14374) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:51:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:51:41 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Induction air filter X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1119387101" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5009 -------------------------------1119387101 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/21/2005 3:31:29 P.M. Central Standard Time, walter@advancedpilot.com writes: OK, here are some facts. Those that have carbureted engines (O 320/360) and turn on carb heat see a much greater rise in inlet air temp since the air is heated by the exhaust pipe. That is not correct. They will see a much smaller IAT rise in temp than 100 degrees. Try it. I have. In my carbed engine, full carb heat will result in a 50dF rise--maybe. That's not close to 100 degrees and one should remember that the effects of IAT are not linear on detonation margin. What is the large margin that has been reduced a little? How is it related to Compression Ratio? We need facts, not generalizations. If you are interested in facts, then it should be measured, not guessed at. If those of you doing this have not taken an engine to a computerized test stand to accomplish this, then you are guessing. There are several factors in detonation margin. If we remove the fuel factors, we are left with IAT, compression ratio, and CHT as major players. Using higher CR AND higher IAT are both going the wrong way. There is a neat little graph of this in Taylor you can look up. It is pretty impressive how quickly the changes occur. Walter, The only facts here are that your engine sees a 50F rise in carb heat temp, I will measure my heater air temp and lower cowl exiting air temp and get back to you on that one. The other is that we all know the fact that higher CR and higher IAT gets one closer to detonation. Please don't tell me that a 8:1 CR IO 360 with a turbocharger that raised the inlet temp 100F is going to detonate running ROP. How about a supercharger that delivers 40" MAP to a 7.5:1 Lyc IO 520? With no intercooler doesn't the inlet temp rise 100F or more? Who is Taylor? Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96 Aurora, IL (KARR) Run Rich, Run Fast. -------------------------------1119387101 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In a message dated 6/21/2005 3:31:29 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20 walter@advancedpilot.com writes:

<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>OK, here=20 are some facts.

Those that have carbureted engines (O 320/360) = ;and=20 turn on carb heat
see a much greater rise in inlet air temp since the=20= air=20 is heated by
the exhaust pipe.

That is not correct. = =20 They will see a much smaller IAT rise in temp
than 100 degrees. =20= Try=20 it. I have. In my carbed engine, full carb
heat will= =20 result in a 50dF rise--maybe. That's not close to 100
degr= ees=20 and one should remember that the effects of IAT are not linear
on=20 detonation margin.

What is the large margin that has been red= uced=20 a little? How is it
related to Compression Ratio? We need=20 facts, not generalizations.

If you are interested in facts, then it= =20 should be measured, not guessed
at. If those of you doing this h= ave=20 not taken an engine to a
computerized test stand to accomplish this, t= hen=20 you are guessing.
There are several factors in detonation=20 margin. If we remove the fuel
factors, we are left with IAT,=20 compression ratio, and CHT as major
players. Using higher CR AND= =20 higher IAT are both going the wrong way.
There is a neat little=20 graph of this in Taylor you can look up. It is
pretty impressive= how=20 quickly the changes occur.

Walter,

The only facts here are that your engine sees a 50F rise in carb heat t= emp,=20 I will measure my heater air temp and lower cowl exiting air temp and get ba= ck=20 to you on that one. The other is that we all know the fact that=20 higher CR and higher IAT gets one closer to detonation. Please don't t= ell=20 me that a 8:1 CR IO 360 with a turbocharger that raised the inlet temp= =20 100F is going to detonate running ROP. How about a supercharger that=20 delivers 40" MAP to a 7.5:1 Lyc IO 520? With no intercooler doesn= 't=20 the inlet temp rise 100F or more?

Who is Taylor?=20

Scott Krueger=20 AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL=20 (KARR)

Run Rich, Run=20 Fast.

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