Return-Path: Sender: "Marvin Kaye" To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:09:42 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com ([205.188.139.136] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.5) with ESMTP id 527124 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:12:21 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.139.136; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id q.198.327fbb62 (3842) for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:11:46 -0500 (EST) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <198.327fbb62.2ec44082@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:11:46 EST Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Halon A/C extinguishers are the best X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1100146306" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5000 -------------------------------1100146306 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en =20 In a message dated 11/10/2004 9:38:38 PM Central Standard Time, =20 wdodson@bak.rr.com writes: I think halon will displace just as much oxygen as Co2. I would like a =20 medical/chemical explanation why halon might be more survivable, all else =20 being equal. Walter, =20 =20 The following is from : =20 _http://www.tpub.com/content/advancement/14146/css/14146_124.htm_=20 (http://www.tpub.com/content/advancement/14146/css/14146_124.htm)=20 =20 Halon. Halon is a halogenated hydro- c in which one or more=20= =20 of the hydrogen have been replaced by atoms from the ha= =20 series (fluorine, chlorine, bromine, or iodine). This substitutio= n=20 provides nonflamma flame extinguishing properties. A halon=20 numb system has been developed to describe the various halo= genated=20 hydrocarbons. The in the number represents the number of car =20 atoms in the compound molecule; the s digit, the number of= =20 fluorine atoms; the th digit, the number of chlorine atoms; th= e=20 f digit, the number of bromine atoms; and the fifth digit,= =20 the number of iodine atoms, if expr ships=20 are Halon 1301 (the most commonly (AFFF/Ha 1211) applications on flight and h dec= k =20 mobile fire-fighting apparatus. Por Halon 1211 extinguishers =20= are =20 also pl for backfit into vital electronics spaces 1301 consists of one atom of carbon, =20 atoms of fluorine, no chlorine atoms, ship installation, Halon 1301 is super-=20 pressu with nitrogen and stored in compressed cylinders a= s a =20 liquid. When released, it vapo into a colorless, odorless gas =20= with a =20 den- 1211 =20 consists of one atom of carbon, one atom of chlorine, two atoms o= f=20 fluorin less,=20= but it=20 has a sweet smell. Halon 1211 is nit gas. Pressurization is necessary since the va=20 pressure is too low to convey it properly to the fire Th= e=20 mechanism by which halon exting a fire is not thoroughly known. Howe= ver,=20 and 1301) chemically inhibits the flame f the halons ac= t =20 by removing the active che species involved in the flame=E2=80= =99s chain=20 rea Halon decomposes upon contact with fla hot surfaces =20 above 900=C2=B0F (482=C2=B0C). Decompo produ are principally hydroge= n fluoride =20 and hydro bromide. seconds maximum) keeps the thermal deco The real hazard lies not in the by-products of= =20 halon, but rather in the products of comb with the oxygen depletion, heat, and smoke a=20 greater hazard to personnel. Personnel not remain in a space where Ha= lon =20 1301 ha rel to extinguish a fire unless an oxygen breathin= g=20 apparatus (OBA) is worn. If Halo sho inadvertently be released int= o=20 a space where no fire exists, personnel can be expo 5 percent= =20 concentrations of Halon 1301 for wi danger to their health. Halon 1301 can extinguishing agent in t= he=20 normal 5-to-7-p concentratio however, spaces should be ev= ac=20 on halon system discharge. Exposure to Halon 1301 concentrations concentra of 2 to 3= =20 percent by volume has lit noticeable effect on humans. Exposure= =20 to 1301 concentrations of between 7 and 10 pe and Halon=20= =20 1211 concentrations of between 3 and 4 percent may cause personnel=20= to=20 expe dizz and tingling of the extremities. Those sympt=20 indicate mild anesthesia. At Halon 1301 concentrations above 10 p= ercent=20 and dizz become= s=20 pronounced. Subjects feel as h and physical and mental dexterity is redu= ced. No=20 significant adverse health effects D contact with vaporizing liquid being=20 discharged from Halon 1301 and Halon 12 a strong chilling effec= t on objects=20 and can frostbite and burns to the skin. The liquid vapori rapi= dly=20 when mixed with air and there- fore limits this hazard to the=20 immediate vi
In a message dated 11/10/2004 9:38:38 PM Central Standard Time,=20 wdodson@bak.rr.com writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>I think=20 halon will displace just as much oxygen as Co2.  I would like a=20
medical/chemical explanation why halon might be more survivable, all e= lse=20
being equal.
Walter,
 
 
The following is from :  htt= p://www.tpub.com/content/advancement/14146/css/14146_124.htm
 
 Halon.=20  Halon  is  a  halogenated=20  hydro- carbon &nbs= p;in=20  which  one  or  more  of  the=20  hydrogen atoms  have  = ;been=20  replaced  by  atoms  from  the halogen  series  (fluorine,  chlorine,=20  bromine,  or iodine). This= =20 substitution provides nonflammability and=20  flame  extinguishing  properties.  A=20  halon numbering  system=20  has  been  developed  to  describe <= SPAN=20 class=3Dps15>the various halogenated hydrocarbons. The first=20 digit  in  the  number  represe= nts=20  the  number  of carbo= n=20   atoms   in   the   compound=20   molecule;   the second  digit,  the  number  of=20  fluorine  atoms;  the third=20  digit,  the  number  of  chlorine  atoms;=20  the fourth  digit,  t= he=20  number  of  bromine  atoms;  and the fifth digit, the number of iodine atoms, if=20 any. In  this  system,=20  terminal  zero  digits  are  not expressed. The &nb= sp;two=20  types  of  halon  used  aboard=20  Navy ships are Halon 1301 (the=20= most=20 commonly used) and   Halon=20   1211,   introduced   for=20   twin-agent (AFFF/Halon=20  1211)  applications  on  flight  and= =20 hangar   deck   mobile=20   fire-fighting   apparatus. Portable   Halon   1211=20   extinguishers   are   also planned  for  backfit  into  vital=20  electronics  spaces of &nb= sp;all=20  surface  combatant  ships. Halon  1301  consists  of  one  = atom=20  of  carbon, three  at= oms=20  of  fluorine,  no  chlorine  atoms,=20 one  bromine  atom,  and  no=20  iodine  atoms.  For shipboard   installation,   Halon=20   1301   is   super- pressurized  with  nitrogen  and  sto= red=20  in  compressed gas=20  cylinders  as  a  liquid.  When  released,=20  it vaporizes  into  a= =20  colorless,  odorless  gas  with  a=20  den- sity  of=20  approximately  five  times  that  of=20  air. Halon  1211  con= sists=20  of  one  atom  of  carbon, one atom of chlorine, two atoms of fluorine, and=20 one  atom  of  bromine.  Halon=20  1211  is  also  color- less, but it has a sweet smell. Halon 1211 is=20 stored and  shipped  as &nb= sp;a=20  liquid  and  pressurized  with nitrogen  gas.  Pressurization  is=20  necessary  since  the vapor=20  pressure  is  too  low  to  convey  it=20  properly to the fire=20 area. The mechanism by which halon=20 extinguishes a fire is not thoroughly= =20 known. However, Halon (1211  and= =20  1301)  chemically  inhibits  the  flame=20 front;  the  halons  act  by=20  removing  the  active chemical  species  involved  in  the=20  flame=E2=80=99s  chain reaction. Halon de= composes=20 upon contact with flames or hot surfa= ces=20 above 900=C2=B0F (482=C2=B0C). Decomposition products=20  are  principally  hydrogen  fluoride=20  and hydrogen=20   bromide. The  short=20  discharge  time  of  Halon  1301=20  (10 seconds maximum) keeps the=20 thermal decomposi- tion  product= s=20  well  below  lethal  concentrations. The real hazard lies not in the by-products of=20 the halon, but rather in the products= of=20 combustion from  the  fire.= =20  Products  such  as  CO,  combined with the oxygen depletion, heat, and smoke, pose=20 a greater hazard to personnel. Personnel=20 should not remain in a space where Ha= lon=20 1301 has been released  to=20  extinguish  a  fire  unless  an=20  oxygen breathing apparatus (OBA= ) is=20 worn. If Halon 1301 should=20  inadvertently  be  released  into  a=20  space where no fire exists, per= sonnel=20 can be exposed to 5-to-7  percen= t=20  concentrations  of  Halon  1301  for= =20 up  to  10  minutes  (depending= =20  upon  the  individual) without  danger  to  their  health.=20  Halon  1301  can be=20  considered  a  nontoxic  and=20  nonsuffocating extinguishing ag= ent in=20 the normal 5-to-7-percent concentrati= ons;=20    however,   spaces   should=20   be evacuated  on=20  halon  system  discharge. Exposure to Halon 1301 concentrations of up= to  about  7  percent  by  volum= e=20  and  Halon  1211 concentrations  of  2  to  3  pe= rcent=20  by  volume  has littl= e=20  noticeable  effect  on  humans.  Exposure=20  to Halon  1301=20  concentrations  of  between  7  and=20  10 percent  and  Halo= n=20  1211  concentrations  of  between 3 and 4 percent may cause personnel to experience<= /SPAN>=20 dizziness  and  tingling  of  t= he=20  extremities.  Those sympto= ms=20  indicate  mild  anesthesia.  At  Halon=20 1301 concentrations above 10 percent and=20 Halon 1211  concentrations  = ;above=20  4  and  5  percent,  the dizziness  becomes  pronounced.  Subjects=20  feel  as if  they=20  will  lose  consciousness  (although=20  none have),  and  phy= sical=20  and  mental  dexterity  is reduced. No significant adverse health effects=20 have been  reported  from=20  the  use  of  Halon  1301  or=20  1211 as  a  fire=20  extinguisher  since  their  introduction=20 into  the  marketplace. Direct  contact  with  vaporizing  li= quid=20  being discharged from Halon 130= 1 and=20 Halon 1211 has a strong chilling effe= ct on=20 objects and can cause frostbite and b= urns=20 to the skin. The liquid phase vapori= zes=20  rapidly  when  mixed  with  air  and=20  there- fore limits this hazard= to=20 the immediate vicinity of  the=20  nozzle.=20
 
Scott Krueger=20 AKA Grayhawk
N92EX IO320 Aurora, IL (KARR)

Some Assembly Required=20
Using Common Hand Tools.
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