Return-Path: Sender: "Marvin Kaye" To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:14:04 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com ([64.12.138.205] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.5) with ESMTP id 526217 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:51:20 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.138.205; envelope-from=REHBINC@aol.com Received: from REHBINC@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id q.84.38280c9c (4320) for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:50:48 -0500 (EST) From: REHBINC@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <84.38280c9c.2ec3a0e8@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:50:48 EST Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Halon fire extinguishers X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1100105448" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5114 -------------------------------1100105448 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/10/2004 7:30:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, Newlan2dl@aol.com writes: Any idea how hot these fires get? Dan, I can't tell you the exact temperature for this condition but I can bracket it for you. We generally assume hydrocarbon fueled compartment fires in buildings and ships to reach around 925 C. However this is with ventilation equivalent to an open window. The forced ventilation under the cowling would obviously increase this quite a bit. I have found that copper is likely to melt in aircraft engine compartment fires, so that would push the peak temperature up to around 1000 C or more. The adiabatic flame temperature of gasoline is roughly 2000 C. This value plus the ambient temperature is the theoretical upper limit under any condition. It is also virtually unattainable since it requires a perfectly insulated leak tight enclosure with nothing but a stoichiometric mixture of fuel and air inside. In the real world, heat escapes and other materials are present that are warmed by the flame thus reducing its temperature. So, the firm answer is at least 1000C but less than 2000 C above ambient. My SWAG would be roughly 1350C. While we are on the subject of temperatures, the autoignition temperature for av gas is 440 C, for diesel is 230 C and for polyester is 560 C. Motor oil should be similar to diesel. If anyone is interested... Rob -------------------------------1100105448 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In a message dated 11/10/2004 7:30:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, Newlan2= dl@aol.com writes:

Any idea how hot these fires get?&nbs= p;

Dan,

I can't tell you the exact temperature for this condition but I can bra= cket it for you. We generally assume hydrocarbon fueled compartment fires in= buildings and ships to reach around 925 C. However this is with ventilation= equivalent to an open window. The forced ventilation under the cowling woul= d obviously increase this quite a bit.

I have found that copper is likely to melt in aircraft engine comp= artment fires, so that would push the peak temperature up to around 100= 0 C or more.

The adiabatic flame temperature of gasoline is roughly 2000 C. This val= ue plus the ambient temperature is the theoretical upper limit under an= y condition. It is also virtually unattainable since it requires a= perfectly insulated leak tight enclosure with nothing but a stoichiome= tric mixture of fuel and air inside. In the real world, heat escapes and oth= er materials are present that are warmed by the flame thus reducing its temp= erature.

So, the firm answer is at least 1000C but less than 2000 C above ambien= t. My SWAG would be roughly 1350C.

While we are on the subject of temperatures, the autoignition temperatu= re for av gas is 440 C, for diesel is 230 C and for polyester is 560 C. Moto= r oil should be similar to diesel. If anyone is interested...

Rob

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