Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 00:32:12 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com ([205.188.139.137] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2) with ESMTP id 355556 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 06 Aug 2004 22:45:14 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.139.137; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id q.199.2ce8f034 (4320) for ; Fri, 6 Aug 2004 22:44:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <199.2ce8f034.2e459c1c@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 22:44:44 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Prop pitch with engine failure X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1091846684" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 -------------------------------1091846684 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/6/2004 8:15:06 PM Central Standard Time, tednoel@cfl.rr.com writes: If you spin a prop without a governor, the mechanical forces will drive it to flat pitch. That means that there must be a force applied to drive the prop back to coarse pitch. This is typically done by using oil pressure to drive pistons that move the prop. Of course, when the engine stops, the oil pressure goes away, and the prop spins to flat pitch if it is windmilling. Ted, Then plan on it and accept the lousy high rate of descent. Make your actions following an engine out appropriate to the worse case. Accept it. This means that any fancy glide range gear you are depending on should be set for the worse case. Me, I have explosive bolts to release the prop so that the damn thing doesn't get in the way. Hmmmm...... at idle rpm - 700 or so- I have oil pressure from the gear driven oil pump, albeit lower than cruise. If I remember correctly, my governor is gear driven to increase oil pressure to the prop - next time I will pull back the prop and see if it goes to coarse pitch while at idle rpm (I know it does at 1800 rpm). Thus, if windmilling is below idle rpm the worse case you suggest could exist. Where are the real test pilots out there (not me, baby!) that have actually lost their engine and pulled the prop to coarse pitch and remember the descent rate while they were saving their a$$? BTW, Whilst flying a test in my Skymaster (Continental engs, McCauley props), I did kill the front engine - incredible drag until the prop was feathered (and it did feather while windmilling) - I left the rear running at the book zero thrust value. Too bad I can't do that in my wee Lancair. Geez - I love this. Wimpy and sparce unsigned posts for the last two weeks and finally something to get the blood flowing and mental gears rotating. I know there are many lurkers out there - so step up. This stuff is important - even if it just gets you to think about these conditions -- even if your personal aircraft research causes you to reach a different conclusion than any of those postulated. Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk Sky2high@aol.com II-P N92EX IO320 Aurora, IL (KARR) Opinions and results may vary! -------------------------------1091846684 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 8/6/2004 8:15:06 PM Central Standard Time,=20 tednoel@cfl.rr.com writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>
If you spin a prop without a governor, th= e=20 mechanical forces will drive it to flat pitch. That means that there must=20= be a=20 force applied to drive the prop back to coarse pitch. This is typically do= ne=20 by using oil pressure to drive pistons that move the prop. Of course, when= the=20 engine stops, the oil pressure goes away, and the prop spins to flat pitch= if=20 it is windmilling.
 
Ted,
 
Then plan on it and accept the lousy high rate of descent.&nb= sp;=20 Make your actions following an engine out appropriate to the worse case.&nbs= p;=20 Accept it.
 
This means that any fancy glide range gear you are depending on should=20= be=20 set for the worse case.
 
Me, I have explosive bolts to release the prop so that the damn thing=20 doesn't get in the way.
 
Hmmmm...... at idle rpm - 700 or so- I have oil pressure from the gear=20 driven oil pump, albeit lower than cruise.  If I remember correctl= y,=20 my governor is gear driven to increase oil pressure to the prop - next time=20= I=20 will pull back the prop and see if it goes to coarse pitch while at idle rpm= (I=20 know it does at 1800 rpm).  Thus, if windmilling is below idle rpm the=20 worse case you suggest could exist.
 
 Where are the real test pilots out there (not me, baby!) tha= t=20 have actually lost their engine and pulled the prop to coarse pitch and reme= mber=20 the descent rate while they were saving their a$$?
 
BTW, Whilst flying a test in my Skymaster (Continental engs, McCauley=20 props), I did kill the front engine - incredible drag until the prop was=20 feathered (and it did feather while windmilling) - I left the rear running a= t=20 the book zero thrust value.  Too bad I can't do that in my wee=20 Lancair.
 
Geez - I love this.  Wimpy and sparce unsigned posts for the last=20= two=20 weeks and finally something to get the blood flowing and mental gears=20 rotating.  I know there are many lurkers out there - so step up. =20= This=20 stuff is important - even if it just gets you to think about these=20 conditions -- even if your personal aircraft research causes you t= o=20 reach a different conclusion than any of those postulated.
 
Scott Krueger=20 AKA Grayhawk
Sky2high@aol.com
II-P N92EX IO320 Aurora, IL=20 (KARR)

Opinions and results may vary!
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