Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 08:34:27 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m22.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.3] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b4) with ESMTP id 123521 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 04 Jun 2004 08:30:57 -0400 Received: from VTAILJEFF@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r2.6.) id q.1e6.21f8a82b (1320) for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 08:30:23 -0400 (EDT) From: VTAILJEFF@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <1e6.21f8a82b.2df1c55f@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 08:30:23 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Unsafe in any plane X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1086352223" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5110 -------------------------------1086352223 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great remarks on this subject by Charlie Kohler, Brent Regan (BTW who got me confused with somemone else arguing the other side of this point) and now Ted Stanley. As an aircraft accident investigator and CFI. I am called upon quite fequently to testify in many of these matters that come to litigation. It is surprising to me to see the number of parties who argue that the pilot is not responsible for their own action. FAR 91.3 clearly make the PIC responsible for the safety of flight-- not the factory, not the manufacturer, no one else. Of course that does not absolve, in court, anyone else's negligence, BUT the FAR's make clear who is in charge of the flying. I curnently have a matter in which a pilot claims that she should have recieved instruction in how to use an autopilot and electric trim before being allowed to rent an aircraft. She also claims not to know how to use the GPS which was installed. She admits she did not read the POH and further asserts the manufacturer and flight school are responsble for her lack of knowledge in these areas. Pretty much the same arguments in the thread we have been discussing. She took the aircraft up flightseeing and crashed it after the auropilot became engaged. and she could not turn it off-- this is in a Cessna 172. The information about the autopilot, of course, is contained in the supplemental section of the POH. Her argument is without basis in the regulations and yet I see the same comments from pilots in this forum. Where/ how did this belief that we as pilots are not responsible for ensuring the safety of the flight creep into our aviation world? There is no regulation, Advisory Circular or other policy or guidance material I am aware of that states the pilot is not repsponsible for his or her own skill and knowledge level. As a flight instructor, I can help you to improve your level of skill and knowledge but what you do with it after the lesson is entirely up to YOU. Part 91 makes no else responible for your training but YOU. If you fly Part 135 or Part 121 you may be provided training by your employer, but as most of us already know, training in the GA environment is on your own nickle. Many of the aciddents in Moondog's database are LOC or loss of control-- ie stall/spin. These are almost always coded PILOT ERROR by the NTSB. Whether or not an aircraft has good or bad stall characteristics is beside the point IMHO-- you shouldn't be that close to the stall to begin with. Get Jim Frantz's AOA device if you have difficulty knowing how close you are to the stall AOA. Flying is like rock climbing-- if you don't have the skill, you sholdn't be on the mountain. Jeff Edwards LIVP (CFII, MEI) -------------------------------1086352223 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Great remarks on this subject by Charlie Kohler, Brent Regan (BTW who g= ot me confused with somemone else arguing the other side of this point) and=20= now Ted Stanley. As an aircraft accident investigator and CFI. I am cal= led upon quite fequently to testify in many of these matters that come to li= tigation. It is surprising to me to see the number of parties who argue that= the pilot is not responsible for their own action. FAR 91.3 clearly make th= e PIC responsible for the safety of flight-- not the factory, not the manufa= cturer, no one else. Of course that does not absolve, in court, anyone else'= s negligence, BUT the FAR's make clear who is in charge of the flying.
 
I curnently have a matter in which a pilot claims that she should have=20= recieved instruction in how to use an autopilot and electric trim before bei= ng allowed to rent an aircraft. She also claims not to know how to use the G= PS which was installed. She admits she did not read the POH and further asse= rts the manufacturer and  flight school are responsble for her lack of=20= knowledge in these areas. Pretty much the same arguments in the thread we ha= ve been discussing. She took the aircraft up flightseeing and crashed it aft= er the auropilot became engaged. and she could not turn it off-- this is in=20= a Cessna 172. The information about the autopilot, of course, is contained i= n the supplemental section of the POH. Her argument is without basis in the=20= regulations and yet I see the same comments from pilots in this forum. Where= / how did this belief that we as pilots are not responsible for ensuring the= safety of the flight creep into our aviation world?
 
There is no regulation, Advisory Circular or other policy or guidance m= aterial I am aware of that states the pilot is not repsponsible for his or h= er own skill and knowledge level. As a flight instructor, I can help you to=20= improve your level of skill and knowledge but what you do with it after the=20= lesson is entirely up to YOU. Part 91 makes no else responible for your trai= ning but YOU. If you fly Part 135 or Part 121 you may be provided training b= y your employer, but as most of us already know, training in the GA environm= ent is on your own nickle.
 
Many of the aciddents in Moondog's database are LOC or loss of control-= - ie stall/spin. These are almost always coded PILOT ERROR by the NTSB. Whet= her or not an aircraft has good or bad stall characteristics is beside the p= oint IMHO-- you shouldn't be that close to the stall to begin with. Get Jim=20= Frantz's AOA device if you have difficulty knowing how close you are to the=20= stall AOA.
 
Flying is like rock climbing-- if you don't have the skill, you sholdn'= t be on the mountain.
 
Jeff Edwards
LIVP (CFII, MEI)
 
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