From: "Marvin Kaye" <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: stall/spin ad nauseum
To: lml
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 01:45:04 -0400
Message-ID: <web-1515684@logan.com>
In-Reply-To: <20020628033219.72978.qmail@web12504.mail.yahoo.com>
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Posted for Jim McIrvin <pilot195@rocketmail.com>:

{Sir Brian writes:}

{"It is incredible to me that anyone would consider regularly operating
an 
airplane without a thorough familiarity with the stall/spin
characteristics." Hmmm.}

Perhaps it is necessary to edit the above and replace the words 'stall/spin' 
with 'its'.  Does this make anyone feel better??  If you are naive enough to 
think you are a safe pilot, and you do NOT know your airplane's operating 
characteristics....  you are in for a rude awakening.  (or the 
opposite--permanently)

{It is equally incredible to me that anyone would consider regularly
operating an automobile without a thorough familiarity with the high
speed oversteer/understeer skid characteristics on uneven country roads
in the rain at night. With no headlights. And bad shocks.}

>From the accident rate here in San Antonio after a light rain (on oil-slicked 
>roads after weeks of no rain), the above point seems a bit ludicrous.  Maybe 
>all drivers should get "stall/spin" training, too!  I was fortunate - growing 
>up on a farm enabled my Dad to take each of his sons out after a fresh 
>snowfall and teach us how to DRIVE.  Not just be the typical Sunday driver.

{Let's learn to operate every piece of equipment at the very edge of its
envelope so we are pretty sure we can deal with most anything that
arises. Then we don't have to worry as much about how we operate it.
Good plan.}

Let's see... if the 98% of the new high performance pilot's I've flown with 
are any indication, all the extra speed you carry on base to provide "that 
extra margin above stall speed" only serves to explode the turn radius W-A-Y 
beyond what you allowed.. causing a nice, embarrasing overshoot onto the 
parallel runway.  And since egos are what they are among us pilots (me too), 
we GOTTA tighten that turn up... (refer back to Aerodynamics for Naval 
Aviators or the like) and recall that increased bank angle increases stall 
speed exponentially... that's like infinity at 90 degrees of bank, for the OBC 
types (like me) among us.  (email me for the definition of OBC)  Oh, by the 
way, the turn radius allowed seems to be more appropriate for a Bonanza or 
210; not the IV/P; so we're set up for an overshoot anyway....

Back to what I said earlier -- if there is ONE trend I've seen among the "high 
HP" crowd it's this:  a woefully inadequate use of rudder during large power 
changes - particularly evident during go-arounds, missed approaches, and the 
like.  Deadly if you happened to be nearing the stall due to that increased 
bank angle.  (Stall+Yaw=Spin ---> more altitude than you have, if you're in 
the pattern!)

Note to a different writer: "Experience counts"? Sounds logical,
especially if it is the experienced one talking. Unfortunately, aviation
statistics don't seem to support that conclusion. It certainly counts
for some things, but, for safety, the right mental attitude beats flight
hours and ratings every time, IMHO.

Actually, I'd like to see those statistics, Brian.  The most dangerous time 
for a pilot in the US Air Force is 400-600 hours in type.  Complacency. 
  Before that, you're pretty aware that you're new; after that you've probably 
scared yourself half to death once and now you no-sssss pay attention.  

I own and instruct in C-195s also; same 400-600 hour correlation in that as 
the AF determined.  Interesting.  Now, you didn't say this, so maybe we agree 
-- it seems evident that many think "lots of money" equals "safe/good pilot". 
  I have no doubt about the validity of that - do you???? Safe pilots buy 
training with their money.


Jim McIrvin (210-275-7780)
Lancair Instructor
fast jet instructor
tailwheel instructor...

and, yes, I've been shot at....

keep the greasy side down!  (that's for my round-engine brethern!)