Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:51:05 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.37] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0b4) with ESMTP id 1513243 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:36:19 -0400 Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id q.109.14765d7f (25306) for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:36:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <109.14765d7f.2a4a829d@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:36:13 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: FW: stalls/spins X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_109.14765d7f.2a4a829d_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10509 --part1_109.14765d7f.2a4a829d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/25/2002 5:57:59 PM Central Daylight Time, marv@lancaironline.net writes: > I don't want to do that in a Lancair, a Glasair or any other > plane that might not be so friendly, but it can happen and happen fast. > So, > I agree with Brian...know your planes characteristics relative to stall > approach and handling, get that POH written and in doing so you will cement > the numbers in the old brain, but build your reflexes in kinder, more > forgiving aircraft, or even high performance aircraft with known stall > characteristics. John, Wrong.... No Lancair is under-powered or would dare use a mechanical flap control. In 320/360s (and probably the others) a power-off approach to stall (with or without flaps) can be flown out of, without changing angle of attack, by application of power and right rudder. You did remember to advance the mixture and prop controls during the approach to landing, didn't you? There are no fixed numbers! I suggest that it may be useful to get and read "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators", Basic Aerodynamics, starting at page 35, Flight at High Lift Conditions. One rule of thumb is that "a 2% change in weight causes a 1% change in stall speed." A 320 with a 170 lb pilot and 90 lbs of fuel (1460 lbs) may stall at V, then fully loaded at 1800 lbs, a 24% weight increase, will stall at 1.12V. Another is that "no appreciable change in load factor or stall speed occurs at bank angles less than 30 degrees". On the converse, at bank angles starting at 45 degrees, the stall speed starts to increse by 20%. Flaps (high lift devices) are very interesting with respect to center of lift, pitching moment, drag and the affect on stalls. Read this and you will understand why Lancair put Fowler flaps on the Legacy. Later it discusses the violent reaction to sudden disruption to laminar flow over the wings (see spin warnings in e-mail written by Dave Morss). Naval aviators are told that 50% of their flying will be below 100 Kts (Circa 1965) and below 1000 ft. For this reason, they are taught precision slow speed flying and "...must appreciate the effect of the many vairables affecting the stall speed and regard 'attitude flying,' angle of attack indicators, and stall warning devices as techniques which allow more precise control of the airplane at high lift conditions." Scott Krueger LNC2 N92EX PS Don't learn to always push on the stick, someday you might be up-side down. --part1_109.14765d7f.2a4a829d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/25/2002 5:57:59 PM Central Daylight Time, marv@lancaironline.net writes:


I don't want to do that in a Lancair, a Glasair or any other
plane that might not be so friendly, but it can happen and happen fast.  So,
I agree with Brian...know your planes characteristics relative to stall
approach and handling, get that POH written and in doing so you will cement
the numbers in the old brain, but build your reflexes in kinder, more
forgiving aircraft, or even high performance aircraft with known stall
characteristics.


John,

Wrong....

No Lancair is under-powered or would dare use a mechanical flap control.  In 320/360s (and probably the others) a power-off approach to stall (with or without flaps) can be flown out of, without changing angle of attack, by application of power and right rudder.  You did remember to advance the mixture and prop controls during the approach to landing, didn't you?

There are no fixed numbers!

I suggest that it may be useful to get and read "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators", Basic Aerodynamics, starting at page 35, Flight at High Lift Conditions.  One rule of thumb is that "a 2% change in weight causes a 1% change in stall speed."  A 320 with a 170 lb pilot and 90 lbs of fuel (1460 lbs) may stall at V, then fully loaded at 1800 lbs, a 24% weight increase, will stall at 1.12V.  Another is that "no appreciable change in load factor or stall speed occurs at bank angles less than 30 degrees".  On the converse, at bank angles starting at 45 degrees, the stall speed starts to increse by 20%.  Flaps (high lift devices) are very interesting with respect to center of lift, pitching moment, drag and the affect on stalls.  Read this and you will understand why Lancair put Fowler flaps on the Legacy.  Later it discusses the violent reaction to sudden disruption to laminar flow over the wings (see spin warnings in e-mail written by Dave Morss).  Naval aviators are told that 50% of their flying will be below 100 Kts (Circa 1965) and below 1000 ft.  For this reason, they are taught precision slow speed flying and "...must appreciate the effect of the many vairables affecting the stall speed and regard 'attitude flying,' angle of attack indicators, and stall warning devices as techniques which allow more precise control of the airplane at high lift conditions."

Scott Krueger
LNC2 N92EX

PS  Don't learn to always push on the stick, someday you might be up-side down. --part1_109.14765d7f.2a4a829d_boundary--