Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net> (Marvin Kaye)
To: lml
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:07:59 -0400
Message-ID: <redirect-1511530@logan.com>
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 originator="Paul Davis <pdavis@pdavis.bmc.com>"
From: "Paul Davis" <pdavis@bmc.com>
Reply-to: "Paul Davis" <pdavis@bmc.com>
Subject: Re: [LML] Recent Data and Analysis of SPIN Accidents 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 24 Jun 2002 09:37:44 EDT."
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Excellent article.

What I took from the article (maybe because these agreed with my 
own prejudices?):

  Stall/spin RECOVERY training doesn't seem to help much if at all.

  Spin recoverability isn't guaranteed in experimental aircraft,
  particularly with flaps deployed.

  Lots of plane-to-plane variability within the same model of
  experimental and small differences in aircraft may cause drastic 
  differences in performance.

  Inadvertent stalls and spins are more likely in high-performance
  experimental aircraft -- even for experienced pilots.

If we think we can train ourselves into stall/spin safety by training
to recover after the stall or even by training to recognize the
incipient stall (i.e. by practicing for either by stalling our
aircraft) we're probably kidding ourselves.  The real life (death?)
accident scenarios aren't the same as training scenarios.  When we
train, our full attention is on flying the airplane and -- probably
more importantly -- we're EXPECTING the stall.  We can make sure the
ball is centered and take immediate and correct action at the break.
When it happens "for real" it's often because we're distracted --
and we're certainly not expecting a stall in the pattern, much less
a spin.  You might be able to practice recovery in these aircraft
till you can hold altitude loss to a few hundred feet or less -- when
you're EXPECTING the aircraft to stall.  But the same apparently isn't
true for inadvertent stalls.

Many of these dead guys had LOTS of stall/spin training.  I think
we can safely assume they could recognize an incipient stall and
had stall recovery "reflexes" about as well ingrained as is humanly
possible.  Yet for all their training and experience they failed to
recognize that a stall was imminent and then failed to correctly
recover.  What are the chances that any of us would, in similar
circumstances, fair any better?

p.s.  How many of you who practice stall recovery, practice recovery
without adding power as would be required in the case of engine
failure?  I can't remember an instructor ever requiring this of me.
If you do this, what kind of altitude losses are you seeing?

p.p.s.  How many of you have experienced an inadvertent stall at low 
altitude and lived to tell the tale?

-------------------
Paul Davis
Lancair Legacy builder
pdavis@bmc.com
Phone 713-918-1550
-------------------
Force is an argument to use when nothing else
will do and the issue is that important.
--Lazurus Long, Time Enough For Love, pg 267