Return-Path: Received: from pop3.olsusa.com ([63.150.212.2] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5b9) with ESMTP id 969252 for rob@logan.com; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:07:06 -0500 Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net ([64.164.98.8]) by pop3.olsusa.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-71866U8000L800S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:27:57 -0500 Received: from postoffice.pacbell.net ([64.161.2.56]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GO7005IL237KE@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for lancair.list@olsusa.com; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:28:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:27:32 -0800 From: erosiak@postoffice.pacbell.net Subject: Lancair Insurance To: "lancair.list@olsusa.com" Reply-to: erosiak@pacbell.net Reply-to: lancair.list@olsusa.com Message-id: <3C165E24.1DFE62E4@postoffice.pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: lancair.list@olsusa.com <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> There have been many posts on the Lancair insurance association subject most positive, some negative, and each side has it's merits. First, I think Lancair has done as much as it can to keep insurance available to all Lancair pilots, so hats off to them. They have a factory build check and a first flight program. And I am sure by necessity, have responded to Lancair type crashes. It's very possible that as the kit manufacturer they are reviewed under a FAA magnifying glass as a result of most. Yes there is "safety in numbers" as they say. However, as Dave Morss pointed out there is also a concern with creating a potential monster that the insurance companies (plural seems like a misuse as there really aren't that many companies that will insure a Lancair) can point to and say you didn't jump through that hoop. Insurance companies are in business to do what all other companies are in business to do; make money. They aren't doing us a favor taking our insurance premiums. They are betting that we won't crash, and we are betting that we will. Simple as that. There is no difference in this insurance premise for any risks, be they auto, home or life insurance either. The Bonanza Organization and The Cessna Pilot's Association have been been used as examples of groups which provide a discounted insurance plan. This is true, but lets be honest here, neither Beech or Cessna have aircraft that can perform like most Lancair's. Yes, there is the Turbo Bonanza and the T210, but none of these compares to a IV, IV-P, Legacy, many 360's and some ES's (Baron 58 may be an exception here). Further, being a member of the CPA, I can tell you they use their membership numbers to provide "better rates" for their membership. There are discounts in numbers, and Beech and Cessna have them in number of units produced. Most of these aircraft are familiar to the insurers, however you still must pass some form of training process to become insured. One very important point here. While I am not familiar with the Beech org, lets not forget that CPA has full time paid employees to administer the benefits of belonging. I am not saying the Lancair Association is a bad idea, but I do have some questions. Who is going to coordinate it long term? Who will deal with the insurance companies desire to change checkout procedures or problems with a certain type of Lancair? Unless there is a spokesperson for our unified front I don't see why the insurers would listen to us. When it comes to saving money on insurance or simply not getting canceled, here are a few much more basic questions I have: 1. How much time did you take to check out in your Lancair? Was it insurance company driven, or did you stay at it with an approved Lancair instructor until you were feeling confident in the aircraft? In my case for my ES I was required two hours with a known Lancair Instructor, with a sign-off, but in reality it took me much longer to feel confident. Next step for me is to spend as many hours as required to get my instrument competency back. I know that will take me some time, and I intend to spend it wisely. 2. How many of you Lancair drivers are instrument rated? If not why not? This would no doubt help the insurance premium long term. 3. If you are instrument rated do you take an IPC each year? If not why not? While you are at it throw in some flight maneuvers which will keep up your confidence and allow you to become a better pilot. 4. How many have not flown with an approved Lancair check pilot since you became officially checked out in your aircraft? If not, why not? My concern here is this, all of us humans want to find the 'silver bullet'. You know, "take a special pill after you ate that hot fudge sunday and you won't gain any weight". The silver bullet doesn't exist. The Lancair Association may be a great step forward but all of us need to ensure that we provide the basics so it can be successful. If you couldn't honestly answer any of the questions above positively, be careful that you aren't looking for that nonexistent "insurance silver bullet"... it doesn't exist. Go out and get with an instructor, get your instrument rating, or take an IPC if you have one, or just get some dual. Guess where the weak link is in the the aircraft insurance chain? Just some food for thought. Sorry for the long diatribe......... Ed Rosiak Super ES >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye@olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>