Message-ID: <002f01c180e0$a333dfc0$982cf718@up.chartermi.net>
From: "tom" <toms1@chartermi.net>
To: "lancair mail list" <lancair.list@olsusa.com>
Subject: De-Ice for the Lancair IVP
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:38:03 -0800
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>>
   I have reviewed this subject extensively and while I agree the Thermal
Wing is cheaper and lighter, I do not think it is better.  I  fly a Mooney
Rocket with the TKS system (presently building a IVP).  During the
Thanksgiving weekend I flew a trip from Michigan to the Denver area and then
flew from there to Wyoming in some nasty weather.  I had  a one hour flight
to Douglas WY with a full tank of TKS fluid and conditions were not looking
bad based on the flight briefing.

   The weather was considerably worse than forecast with icing encountered
soon into the flight, and ceilings and tops doing nothing close to forecast.
I ran the fluid in anti-ice mode (the lower flow rate) and was generally
keeping the wings clean. Sporadically I would run into some super cooled
water droplets and ice would start to build aft of the leading edges of the
wing.  At one point I noticed ice building on the elevator counter balance
horn as well.  Turning the system up to de-ice mode (high flow) not only
stopped the accumulation, it removed the ice within minutes from both the
aft sections of the wing and the elevator c/w horn.  I see no way the
Thermal wing would handle this problem.  Another residual benefit of the
glycol system is the prop sprayers basically keep the entire fuselage clean
of ice.  I have wing tips that are unprotected, so it was very easy to see
what the icing conditions were like.

    My observations at this point may help with possible de-ice system
choices.  I'll start with some of the negatives.
     I have found the de-ice fluid to be very difficult to find while
traveling and pricey.  I paid $13 per gallon in Minneapolis (gladly at that
point in the trip) for the fluid and have heard of guys paying up to $18 per
gallon away from home.  My cost per gallon was in the $7-8 range for the
bulk purchase I made the day I got home.  To keep the cost down you will
need to stock your own fluid and carry the expected quantity for the trip.
My tank holds 6 1/2 gallons and I now carry another 3 with me.  At high flow
rate it will empty the system in 1 1/4 hours, at anti-ice mode it will last
2 1/2 hours.  The system adds about 30 lbs. to the a/c PLUS the fluid.   The
fluid weighs in at 10 lbs. per gallon (yes you read 10 lbs.).  My Rocket has
a usable of 1200 lbs., so at this point the weight penalty is minimal.  I am
not sure many builders will want to give up that much weight on the IV.  The
fluid is a consumable, it costs you every time you use it and must be
refilled when used.  This may sound redundant but if you don't expect icing
conditions and neglect to fill the system, you will not be using it.

   The leading edge can get bugs plastered on them and will need to be kept
clean.  The fluid can be run to assist this, but not just before landing or
it will weep on the hanger floor  (I have noticed we no longer have mice in
our hanger).  I had anticipated glycol streaks on the plane requiring clean
up after every use.  This has not been the case, the fluid leaves no
noticeable trace on the airframe.

    I found the Thermal wing to be much more cost and weight effective.  The
alternator in that system can be used (with work) as a back up charging
source.  It needs no re-filling, costs nothing to use, and poses no problem
finding an airport for your fuel stop that stocks the fluid.

    I have flown in many a/c with boots and find the TKS to be far superior.
It keeps the entire airframe ice free, not just the leading edges. There are
no chunks of ice coming off and hitting the vertical and horizontal stab.
You can tell if it is working before you get into the icing conditions,
watching the fluid flow out on the leading edge.  The windshield will stay
pretty clean from the prop spray and the w/s spray bar works very
effectively removing any accumulation.

    Hope this insight helps and I would discuss at length any system used on
the IVP.  My plane will have a de-ice system, but I have not decided what
system I will use.  Until someone gets a system available the decision is
somewhat mute anyway.

Tom Sullivan
IVP Builder
U.P. of Michigan


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