Return-Path: Received: from pop3.olsusa.com ([63.150.212.2] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5b7) with ESMTP id 943113 for rob@logan.com; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 08:47:37 -0500 Received: from hawaii.rr.com ([24.25.227.33]) by pop3.olsusa.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-71866U8000L800S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2001 02:44:08 -0500 Received: from brian ([24.161.141.242]) by hawaii.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.517.51); Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:56:40 -1000 Reply-To: Reply-To: lancair.list@olsusa.com From: "Brian Barbata" To: "Lancair Mail List" Subject: Builder assistance/insurance Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:50:40 -1000 Message-ID: <000b01c162a9$e6e13b00$6601a8c0@hawaii.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal Return-Path: barbatab001@hawaii.rr.com X-Mailing-List: lancair.list@olsusa.com <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> After reading some of the responses and thoughts on "LOGI" (if I can coin now that acronym), and the on builder assistance/51% issue, I think there is more going on here than just FAA regs and insurance. I can tell you, we would never be building an airplane at all if it were not for Lancair's credibility, latest fast-build options, factory shop time, and a great builder assist shop next door. In fact, I think anyone would be ill-advised to build a high performance carbon fiber airplane w/o using such assets. Orin tells me ALL the IV's are now sold this way. Thank God. Forget FAA rules or intentions. As we all know, the FAA won't keep you alive. The bottom line is, use your head. If you are going to build an airplane, wouldn't you rather have a professional involved daily than stumbling through a manual for years, worrying whether you got the right materials, and trying to get answers on the phone from a kit manufacturer who doesn't have a clue? Do you want to be making tough structural decisions during construction, only to be wondering about them when penetrating turbulence years later? We are going to honestly put the 51% (or more) into our plane because it will be easy to do in a professionally supervised shop and because we want to. Plus, we will be flying in 9 months or so. But, as a requirement, it has nothing to do with anything. Imputing some safety logic to the 51% rule has no foundation at all. It would be interesting to ask the FAA to defend that number (Oshkosh 2002?). I believe the FAA has got to adopt a new standard, because I really think Lancair is paving the way to a new industry for professionally built custom performance aircraft. This revolution was ushered in by composite technology, which is the aircraft equivalent of the personal computer revolution. Look at a new Bonanza for $550K and a Lancair Turbine for $400K to $500K, professionally custom built. No contest. In fact, I think you are going to see a flood of kit composites replacing these "tin cans" (one of which I currently fly) in the next decade. Without allowing people to just setup shop and produce experimental airplanes for sale, there should be an avenue through which you can buy an "FAA Reviewed" design and have an "FAA Certified" shop professionally build it....from 100% to 10%, as you like. Maybe the shop and the airplane owner have to go through a course at the factory. Maybe the owner can't resell the airplane for 5 years. Maybe the FAA inspections are much more rigorous. Maybe there are progress sign-offs. Maybe there are FAA test flight protocols. I'm sure there are ways to control such a cottage industry, if the FAA would focus on it. Personally, I would be much more comfortable buying such an airplane than flying one someone had built in their garage over 5 years and flown the hours off. I suspect the individual FAA inspectors/DAR's privately encourage good shops for such complex airplanes because they would rather see them coming out of good, professional shops than owner garages. There just needs to be some oversight for these shops, instead of pretending they don't exist and playing this little numbers game with the 51% criteria. I think the recent Tony Duruzzi case exemplifies this need. As "owner-builders", we are not capable of evaluating a shop, which can easily be selected just because it is cheap and close to home. There needs to be some control. Maybe that would make the insurance underwriters feel better too, perhaps pre-approving airplanes built in certain shops. I'm not advocating that you HAVE to do it this way, but there should be an FAA avenue to do it professionally if you want to. There should also be an FAA procedure to get an already built airplane "reviewed". I think these would help resolve the insurance dilemma as well. For those who want to save money and spend years building an airplane from rolls of material and gallons of resin, GO FOR IT! Brian Barbata >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye@olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>