X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 12:17:40 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost02.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTP id 6497893 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 01 Oct 2013 11:39:33 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.52; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-98-85-109-33.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.109.33]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc02) with SMTP id <20131001153856H0200jac4he>; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 15:38:56 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.109.33] From: "Bill Bradburry" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Fw: [LML] Re: Lancair 320/360 performance and stability X-Original-Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 11:39:02 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: <2C1EE34360554788B63DE97562E579CE@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01CEBE9A.D443D7A0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac6+s2Q1avI7ppEzRJyaG/B08H8hswACIoRA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CEBE9A.D443D7A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, I don=92t know why you would need to add the probe. Your pitot should = work fine to get any differences in speed with the reflex. As far as the AP goes, it depends on how steady you are as a pilot. =93George=94 is a = heck of a lot more stable than I am. I would want him to fly it. :>) =20 Bill=20 =20 _____ =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = steve Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 10:35 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Fw: [LML] Re: Lancair 320/360 performance and = stability =20 Chris, I would be happy to volunteer my 360. The mounting of the probe would be a hurtle as I don't have the lens on the tip. The tip is = removable but not to keen on drilling a hole in it. maybe we could find a stray = tip or some other method of mounting. =20 As Grayhawk mentioned an auto pilot would help greatly along with = changing the GPS to Km. I have a Garmin 696 but no Auto pilot. That is on order = in the coming months. Do you think it should wait until I have an auto = pilot? =20 I will test the -10 degree reflex ASAP and report back. =20 Steve Alderman N25SA 360 -----Original Message----- From: Sky2high To: lml Sent: Mon, Sep 30, 2013 9:32 pm Subject: [LML] Re: Fw: [LML] Re: Lancair 320/360 performance and = stability Another way to measure fine speed changes is to set your WAAS GPS to set your distance units to Km and, whilst under AP altitude hold control in level flight, make the flap change with any trim adjustment as required = and wait the 3 minutes to record the new speed. KM/hr is more than twice as fine as Kts. =20 Grayhawk=20 =20 In a message dated 9/30/2013 5:57:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, chris_zavatson@yahoo.com writes: =20 =20 Steve, For small deflections you can use: sin(3 deg) * (flap chord) My flap chord at the root is 10.75", so 0.56" - Another option is a = digital level. =20 The faired-in position is pretty accurate at -7 degrees. When I = calibrated my flap position transducer, I had to make a full size template to = locate 0 degrees. The fuselage fairing ended up right at -7.0, so it is a good reference. =20 When measuring speeds greater that 120 KIAS, I recorded each point for = at least three minutes. I found that it took about 2 minutes to reach a = truly stabilized speed after a power or flap setting change. The speed decay = is so slow it isn't really detectable by starring at the airspeed = indicator. Imagine trying to see average needle movement of 1kt/min. Fortunately = the two minute settling time is very consistent. =20 I think it would be quite valuable and educational to repeat the same = series to of tests on a small tail 320/360. I would be more than happy to go = over all the details with anyone interested in volunteering. I think the = biggest hurdle is mounting the alpha/beta probe. I was able to grab onto the mounting provisions for my wingtip lens with a fiberglass 'lens' to = mount the probe. The internal transducers are relatively simple. =20 Chris Zavatson N91CZ 360std http://www.n91cz.net/ =20 From: steve To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 5:59 AM Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair 320/360 performance and stability =20 Chris, I'm going to re-just my flaps to -10 reflex and see what = happens. What would you guess the measurement is up from the trailing edge of the faired in position? Thanks for all your work. Do you need a small tail 360 for = more testing? =20 Steve Alderman N25SA -----Original Message----- From: Chris Zavatson To: lml Sent: Sun, Sep 29, 2013 8:54 pm Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair 320/360 performance and stability So I happened to be looking for something unrelated in the FB manual and came across this on page 10-24: =20 "Lancair flaps are full electric actuated. They are designed to run = from +45 down to -10 up (reflex). Note that the 'faired in position' for = flaps is actually a -7 deg reflex position. ....." =20 My standard build manual is in storage so I could not compare. It would appear the intent was to be able to go to -10 degrees after all. =20 Chris Zavatson N91CZ 360std http://www.n91cz.net/ =20 From: Christian Meier To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 3:19 AM Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair 320/360 performance and stability =20 Chris, =20 today I made a picture during Cruise with Autopilot at 7500ft with = following configuration: 770 kg 40l in header, 20l in each wing (80l total), 75kg and 83kg for = pilot and co. Flap was on 7=B0 reflex CG 26,20" =20 My design CG is 22,8 - 30,3 from firewall back, horizontal was = installed - 0.6=B0 =20 So it looks like if I would add more reflex than 7=B0, I would need more = down elevator. So the gain with the higher reflex would be lost with the down = elevator....=20 =20 Christian =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 -- For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CEBE9A.D443D7A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Steve,

I don’t know why you would = need to add the probe.=A0 Your pitot should work fine to get any differences in speed = with the reflex.=A0 As far as the AP goes, it depends on how steady you are as a = pilot.=A0 “George” is a heck of a lot more stable than I am.=A0 I would want him to fly = it.=A0 :>)

 

Bill

 

From: = Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of steve
Sent: Tuesday, October = 01, 2013 10:35 AM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Fw: = [LML] Re: Lancair 320/360 performance and stability

 

Chris,  I would be happy to volunteer my 360.  The mounting of the probe would be a hurtle as I = don't have the lens on the tip. The tip is removable  but not to keen on drilling a hole in it. maybe we could find a stray  tip or some = other method of mounting.

 

=

As Grayhawk  mentioned  = an auto pilot would help greatly along with changing the GPS to Km. I have a = Garmin 696 but no Auto pilot. That is on order in the coming months. Do you think = it should wait until I have an auto pilot?

 

=

I will test the -10 degree reflex = ASAP and report back.

 

=

Steve Alderman  = N25SA   360

-----Original Message-----
From: Sky2high <Sky2high@aol.com>
To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, Sep 30, 2013 9:32 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: Fw: [LML] Re: Lancair 320/360 performance and = stability

Another way to measure fine speed = changes is to set your WAAS GPS to set your distance units to Km and, = whilst under AP altitude hold control in level flight, make the flap change with = any trim adjustment as required and wait the 3 minutes to record the new speed.  KM/hr is more than twice as fine as = Kts.

 

=

Grayhawk 

 

=

In a message dated 9/30/2013 = 5:57:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, chris_zavatson@yahoo.com writes:

 

 

Steve,

For small deflections you can use: sin(3 deg) * (flap = chord)

My flap chord at the root is 10.75", so 0.56"  - Another option = is a digital level.

 

The faired-in position is pretty accurate at -7 degrees.  When I = calibrated my flap position transducer, I had to make a full size template to locate 0 degrees.  The fuselage fairing ended up right at -7.0, so it is a = good reference.

 

When measuring speeds greater that 120 KIAS, I recorded each point for at = least three minutes. I found that it took about 2 minutes to reach a = truly stabilized speed after a power or flap setting change.   The = speed decay is so slow it isn't really detectable by starring at = the airspeed indicator.  Imagine trying to see average needle movement of 1kt/min.  Fortunately the two minute settling time is very = consistent.

 

I think it would be quite valuable and educational to repeat the same = series to of tests on a small tail 320/360.  I would be more than = happy to go over all the details with anyone interested in volunteering.  I = think the biggest hurdle is mounting the alpha/beta probe.  I was able to = grab onto the mounting provisions for my wingtip lens with a = fiberglass 'lens' to mount the probe.  The internal transducers are relatively = simple.

 

Chris Zavatson

N91CZ=

360std

 

From: steve <n5276j@aol.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Monday, September = 30, 2013 5:59 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: = Lancair 320/360 performance and stability

 

Chris, &nbs= p; I'm going to re-just my flaps to -10 reflex and see what happens. What = would you guess the measurement is up from the trailing edge of the faired in position?

  &nbs= p;         Thanks for all your work. Do you need a small tail 360 for more = testing?

 

Steve Alderman   N25SA

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Zavatson <chris_zavatson@yahoo.com>=
To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Sep 29, 2013 8:54 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair 320/360 performance and = stability

So I happened to be looking for something unrelated in the FB manual and came = across this on page 10-24:

 

"Lancair flaps are full electric actuated.  They are designed to run from = +45 down to -10 up (reflex).  Note that the 'faired in position' for flaps = is actually a -7 deg reflex position. = ....."

 

My standard build manual is in storage so I could not compare.  It = would appear the intent was to be able to go to -10 degrees after = all.

 

Chris Zavatson

N91CZ=

360std

 

From: Christian = Meier <lancair@meier.cc>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Tuesday, September = 24, 2013 3:19 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: = Lancair 320/360 performance and stability

 

Chris,

 

today I made a picture during Cruise with Autopilot at 7500ft with following = configuration:

770 kg  40l in header, 20l in each wing (80l total), 75kg and 83kg for = pilot and co.

Flap was on 7=B0 reflex  CG 26,20"  

My = design CG is 22,8  -  30,3 from firewall back,  horizontal was = installed - 0.6=B0

 

So = it looks like if I would add more reflex than 7=B0, I would need more down = elevator.

So = the gain with the higher reflex would be lost with the down elevator.... =

 

Christian=

 


 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



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