X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-m03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.77] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6497143 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 23:32:37 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.143.77; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.77]) by omr-m03.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 11C5E70036212 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 23:32:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mtd004b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mtd004.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.235.205]) by mtaomg-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id D47B2E000082 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2013 23:32:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com Full-name: Sky2high Message-ID: <8236f.19a32352.3f7b9c32@aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 23:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [LML] Fw: [LML] Re: Lancair 320/360 performance and stability To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_8236f.19a32352.3f7b9c32_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 168 X-Originating-IP: [67.175.156.123] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1380598323; bh=McoVKg1Y1OpviPk7Zs24RaQ5fxiuvZtO3Jx46ItNYYs=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=aUtxMW78gZKUCCRFvHCD5KNQeh5V1+CFPDrNNni3vlqZKml6hJySvH0Y7u4s7jwB9 swvX0TrHMZuXQm4zcMpnwZldGXF2JLFm6xxa5w0yJpbLfr2Yi9dErh6/H1R0uj8Dni 18Z9JDM8vHEtnNLKJAEMpq6A7yJy93d5zxCAUMzs= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d294d524a42320040 --part1_8236f.19a32352.3f7b9c32_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Another way to measure fine speed changes is to set your WAAS GPS to set = =20 your distance units to Km and, whilst under AP altitude hold control in=20 level flight, make the flap change with any trim adjustment as required and= =20 wait the 3 minutes to record the new speed. KM/hr is more than twice as f= ine=20 as Kts. =20 Grayhawk=20 =20 =20 In a message dated 9/30/2013 5:57:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, =20 chris_zavatson@yahoo.com writes: =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Steve, For small deflections you can use: sin(3 deg) * (flap chord) My flap chord at the root is 10.75", so 0.56" - Another option is a=20 digital level. =20 The faired-in position is pretty accurate at -7 degrees. When I=20 calibrated my flap position transducer, I had to make a full size template = to locate=20 0 degrees. The fuselage fairing ended up right at -7.0, so it is a good= =20 reference. =20 When measuring speeds greater that 120 KIAS, I recorded each point for at= =20 least three minutes. I found that it took about 2 minutes to reach a truly= =20 stabilized speed after a power or flap setting change. The speed decay i= s=20 so slow it isn't really detectable by starring at the airspeed indicator. = =20 Imagine trying to see average needle movement of 1kt/min. Fortunately the= =20 two minute settling time is very consistent. =20 I think it would be quite valuable and educational to repeat the same=20 series to of tests on a small tail 320/360. I would be more than happy to= go=20 over all the details with anyone interested in volunteering. I think the= =20 biggest hurdle is mounting the alpha/beta probe. I was able to grab onto = the=20 mounting provisions for my wingtip lens with a fiberglass 'lens' to mount= =20 the probe. The internal transducers are relatively simple. =20 Chris Zavatson N91CZ 360std http://www.n91cz.net/ =20 =20 From: steve To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 5:59 AM Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair 320/360 performance and stability Chris, I'm going to re-just my flaps to -10 reflex and see what happens.= =20 What would you guess the measurement is up from the trailing edge of the= =20 faired in position? Thanks for all your work. Do you need a small tail 360 for=20 more testing? =20 Steve Alderman N25SA -----Original Message----- From: Chris Zavatson To: lml Sent: Sun, Sep 29, 2013 8:54 pm Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair 320/360 performance and stability =20 =20 So I happened to be looking for something unrelated in the FB manual and = =20 came across this on page 10-24: =20 "Lancair flaps are full electric actuated. They are designed to run from= =20 +45 down to -10 up (reflex). Note that the 'faired in position' for flaps= =20 is actually a -7 deg reflex position. ....." =20 My standard build manual is in storage so I could not compare. It would= =20 appear the intent was to be able to go to -10 degrees after all. =20 Chris Zavatson N91CZ 360std http://www.n91cz.net/ =20 =20 From: Christian Meier <_lancair@meier.cc_ (mailto:lancair@meier.cc) > To: _lml@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:lml@lancaironline.net) =20 Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 3:19 AM Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair 320/360 performance and stability =20 Chris, today I made a picture during Cruise with Autopilot at 7500ft with followi= n g configuration: 770 kg 40l in header, 20l in each wing (80l total), 75kg and 83kg for=20 pilot and co. Flap was on 7=B0 reflex CG 26,20" =20 My design CG is 22,8 - 30,3 from firewall back, horizontal was installed= =20 - 0.6=B0 So it looks like if I would add more reflex than 7=B0, I would need more = =20 down elevator. So the gain with the higher reflex would be lost with the down =20 elevator.... =20 Christian =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 -- For archives and unsub =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --part1_8236f.19a32352.3f7b9c32_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Another way to measure fine speed changes is to set your WAAS GPS to s= et=20 your distance units to Km and, whilst under AP altitude hold cont= rol=20 in level flight, make the flap change with any trim adjustment as required = and=20 wait the 3 minutes to record the new speed.  KM/hr is more than t= wice=20 as fine as Kts.
 
Grayhawk 
 
In a message dated 9/30/2013 5:57:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 chris_zavatson@yahoo.com writes:
=
 

Steve,
For small deflections you can use: sin(3 deg) * (flap=20 chord)
My flap chord at the root is 10.75", so 0.56"  -=20 Another option is a digital level.
 
The faired-in position is pretty accurate at -7 degrees. = When=20 I calibrated my flap position transducer, I had to make a full size templ= ate=20 to locate 0 degrees.  The fuselage fairing ended up right at -7.0, s= o it=20 is a good reference.
 
When measuring speeds greater that 120 KIAS, I recorded each p= oint=20 for at least three minutes. I found that it took about 2 minutes to = reach=20 a truly stabilized speed after a power or flap setting change.  = ; The=20 speed decay is so slow it isn't really detectable by starring at=20 the airspeed indicator.  Imagine trying to see average needle= =20 movement of 1kt/min.  Fortunately the two minute settling time is ve= ry=20 consistent.
 
I think it would be quite valuable and educational to rep= eat=20 the same series to of tests on a small tail 320/360.  I would b= e=20 more than happy to go over all the details with anyone interested in= =20 volunteering.  I think the biggest hurdle is mounting the alpha/beta= =20 probe.  I was able to grab onto the mounting provisions for my wingt= ip=20 lens with a fiberglass 'lens' to mount the probe.  The internal transducers are relativ= ely=20 simple.
 
Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std

From: steve=20 <n5276j@aol.com>
To:= =20 lml@lancaironline.net
Sent:=20 Monday, September 30, 2013 5:59 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair 320/360= =20 performance and stability

Chris,   I'm going to re-just my flaps to -10 reflex and s= ee=20 what happens. What would you guess the measurement is up from the trailin= g=20 edge of the faired in position?
            T= hanks=20 for all your work. Do you need a small tail 360 for more testing?
 
Steve Alderman   N25SA
--= ---Original=20 Message-----
From: Chris Zavatson <chris_zavatson@yahoo.com>
= To:=20 lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Sep 29, 2013 8:54=20 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair 320/360 performance and stability
So I happened to be looking for something unrelated in the FB manual= and=20 came across this on page 10-24:
 
"Lancair flaps are full electric actuated.  They are designed t= o run=20 from +45 down to -10 up (reflex).  Note that the 'faired in position= ' for=20 flaps is actually a -7 deg reflex position. ....."
 
My standard build manual is in storage so I could not compare. = It=20 would appear the intent was to be able to go to -10 degrees after all.
 
Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std

From:=20 Christian Meier <lancair@meier.cc>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 = 3:19=20 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: = Lancair=20 320/360 performance and stability

Chris,

today I made a picture during Cruise with Autopilot at 7500ft with= =20 following configuration:
770 kg  40l in header, 20l in each wing (80l total), 75kg and 8= 3kg=20 for pilot and co.
Flap was on 7=B0 reflex  CG 26,20"  
My design CG is 22,8  -  30,3 from firewall back,=20  horizontal was installed - 0.6=B0

So it looks like if I would add more reflex than 7=B0, I would need = more=20 down elevator.
So the gain with the higher reflex would be lost with the down=20 elevator....=20

Christian
 

 

 
 
 
 

<= /DIV>





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